Thread of little Nitpicks

MrMohoMrMoho Senior
edited November 2015 in PVKII Discussion
Welcome, my bloodthirsty frenchies! It is another patch, and so it is time for me again to get all iffy and complain about everything. This time around I shall just talk about the little things that bother me about the game. Nothing world breaking (not that something like that exists right now), just the small issues of life, about the balance of certain classes, a potential HUD glitch that has been around since the beginning, and even some team-balance worries.

The Sluggish Spinner

Short Version:
The Heavy Knights should not be fully immobile after his special is done dealing any damage.

Long Version:
Let me just say this: I hate the Heavy Knights special. It's slow, inflexible, lacks range, takes forever to charge and keeps the HK wide open. Well, the 'takes forever to charge' allegation is partly wrong, technically he can get it the fastes. In fact, if he gets two perfectly performed attacks (max charge + max velocity) he can get it in two swings! The only problem is that because of his slow movement and attack speed, he has way less opportunities to attack other players, not to mention getting in attacks with high velocity. Therefore it generally takes way longer for him to charge his special than others.

But none of that is part of my actual complain. What I mainly have a problem with is that about a second after his special is done dealing any damage, he is still frozen in his animation and that way everybody around him can get a free hit on him. This is really bothersome, since when you use your special incorrectly, or even correctly but not everybody around got caught in it, even those without ranged weapons or a really long one can give him a good whack before he is done. Hell, faster classes can still do this when they only get partly hit by his spin-attack. This makes it the only special that easily, and safely, can be punished.

During this second of vulnerability he at least should be able to block so his special is less punishing if used even slightly poor.



The Rapid-Fire Farting Frenchman


A complain of mine already addressed elsewhere.
Short version:
Classes should not get extra special from mini-crits (currently only utilized in the Man-at-Arms special).

Long Version:
The Man-at-Arms special is perfectly fine. The slowdown, incapability to parry when affected and the velocity bonus of the MAA are all no problem. Even the mini-crits aren't unbalanced. What is is the fact that the Man-at-Arms, and everybody else, also get the extra mini-crit damage added to their special bar. This means that the MAA, despite requiring quite an amount of damage before he can use his special, regain it rather quickly after he is done farting, since there are still clouds lingering about when he is able to gain special again.

Of course this is also a problem with his friends. I appreciate that the Heavy Knight gets his special quicker this way, but if that means that the Archer gets the same benefit I'd rather say neigh.

Simply not allowing the mini-crit damage to be added to the special bar will be enough to fix this.


Kling-Klang-Klunk Junk

Short Version:
The Sword and Axe-Combo is almost useless, especially on higher skill levels.

Long Version:
Oh, the Sword and Axe-Combo, a really fun concept and still very enjoyable to use every now and then, but let's be real; it might be very hard to counter for a dinah, since he doesn't know how to properly dodge and counter it, but once he does (which shouldn't take too long), fighting against a Berserker using only those shouldn't be a problem.

The same goes from the Berserker. At first they seem very useful on how much damage they can dish out in a short time, but once one learns how to properly use the Bigaxe, the Sword and Axe-Combo is quickly forgotten about.

Now how to make this thing at least in some situation useful? I really don't know. One idea I had was making it his anti-range-class-weapon, by allowing him to partly deflect damage from projectiles while blocking with the weapon, since he does have the biggest problem of any scout-class to chase down rangers (except if 'zerking, I guess), since he doesn't have anything to protect himself (like the MAA), isn't super fast (like the Skirmisher), or has anything to harass them at range (like the other two). I suppose something like a damage reduction and stun similar to a wrongly placed block might be too much, so maybe something a little bit less than that might make it fair, but also useful against ranged classes.


Unsteady Hand McMuggin'

I'm a little uncertain about adding this since the Sharpshooter latest boost, but I suppose I add it just for you guys to consider it.

Short Version:
When aiming down AND standing still, the Sharpshooter's Artisan Pistol should have perfect accuracy.

Long Version:
Aaah, the true reason the Sharpshooter is so wonky at long range, because he literally is wonky! Basically, his Artisan Pistol is not accurate, ever. No matter how hard you aim down and stand still, maybe even crouch just for good measures, the Pistol will never be 100% accurate.

Now this isn't an issue at all on middle range, since the Pistol is still accurate enough to hit people precise on this distance. But once we get to long range, there is a very good chance that you won't hit a person not because you suck or just something absolutely unpredictable happened, nope, you just got unlucky.

Because of this, if we just set aside human failure and, well, reality in general and just go by numbers, it is literally impossible to hit every single shot at long range. I have the feeling this was done on purpose, and, you know, with the latest patch this might be perfectly fine. Still, I'd say to at least consider making his Artisan Pistol fully accurate when he is aiming AND standing still. Otherwise, when he is moving and aiming, it should the way it currently is.



Too Quick for His Own Damn Good

This is something that bothered me for a long time, and is actually a more or less a HUD glitch. The charge bar for attacks fills up slightly too fast. This is most apparent with the Skirmisher and almost not at all with anyone else. It is really bothersome when your bar starts to glow but you have to halt just for a fraction of a second longer before attacking.

Again, almost never happens with any class besides the Skirmisher, with whom it happens all the time. Now I don't know how this whole HUD thing works, so please ridicule me if I'm wrong, but this seems like something very easy to fix. Just have the bar ever so slightly charge a little slower. True, the hard part would be to get it just right.


It appears that something in 3.3 fixed this.


These last two are more concerns about team play than actual complains and are prone to change once more classes get added. Still, I reckon you to read it if you want to know what I think the new classes should change once they get released.

Jack of all Trades, Master of All

Short Version:
The Huscarl is not better, but good enough at everything.

Longer Version:
A little team-balance issue I have with the Vikings. Granted, this is highly arguable, but in my opinion the Huscarl is just simply too good at too many things. Yes, he isn't as good at melee ranged support like the Gestir, or as good at scouting like the Berserker, but he is good enough.

He just has the perfect combination of a high damage threshold, high damage, okay speed and variety in his gear to allow him to be used everywhere. Be it from defending to attacking point on the map or even up to chasing down ranged classes with his shield and throwing axes, there is just seemingly nothing this guy can't do. This is of course a running theme of the Vikings, being very varied, however with the Huscarl you might've gone a little overboard.

Again, he isn't better at everything, but because of being so in other key situations, it is usually best to only pick Huscarl's if you want to win a round. They don't have ace team play or are the best at getting those annoying Archers, but hey, every situation that will be thrown at them they can manage.


Me and My best Friend, Myself

Short Version:
Captain is an egocentric matey, meaning he only supports himself (Which I suppose keeps him in character).

Long Version:
The Captain might actually be one of the worst classes by his lonesome. He is not too fast, has a very short weapon, and even his utility items are rather unimpressive. Once he does get in range he deals loads of damage, but that is a feat hard to accomplish by himself. His special is also one of the best in the game, but rarely can it be readied up in the midst of battle.

However, more so than any other class from any team, he benefits from a buddy that can help him overcome his flaws and turn him into something truly amazing. And this buddy just happens to be he himself.

One Captain has trouble to get into range, multiple easily can flank the enemy team and lure them into each others Cutlasses. The damage of one Blunderbuss is hardly worth the reload, two heavily damage various classes. One Parrot is easily dealt with, three are an Archer's worst nightmare. A single Captain has trouble getting his special ready, but with other Captain-bro's at hook he can retreat behind them and get that cannonball in!

Now all of this is absolutely okay, and actually great, it's just that his other two friends aren't contributing at all to that team play. I went over in great lengths how the Sharpshooter can support his mateys, but he himself gets almost none in return (3.3 made him a lot less dependent on... somebody, though).

The Skirmisher isn't any better. He is a scout-class through and through, and that means that most of the time he is out and about somewhere by himself, backstabbing the opposing team. This is of course a great support, but does not have a whole lot to do with team play, he is just out there harassing the enemy. He doesn't need any help with that and only gives a very basic form of support in return: Delaying the enemy forces. I don't consider this team play since, well, he is hardly working together with other teammates.

Of course this isn't such a gigantic problem. I guess I just want to say that I'd like to see more active team play with the Pirates between different classes.

Comments

  • AGSMAAGSMA The Antichrist has Resurrected PVKII Team, Beta Tester
    edited 5:41AM
    Too Quick for His Own Damn Good needs to be a player title.
    But yeah, I do agree on Heavy Knight's special being too cumbersome to pull it out. It could prove effective if the player was able to spin at least a second time; that would work well if the character struggles on holding the two-handed sword like an olympic hammer, which itself could increase the range. Maybe that's just me, since he's pretty much the class I play the least, alongside the Sharpshooter.

    76561198031989549.png

  • NiveNive PVKII Team
    edited 5:41AM
    These are some very interesting concerns!

    The HK's special does feel lackluster, if only because his special is very easy to predict and avoid, probably second only to the Huscarl's.
    He's already the slowest at everything, making his special have this large opening does seem ass-backwards. At the very least, reduce the time it takes for the player to regain control.

    I completely agree with the second point. Crits shouldn't add extra damage to specials, but headshots should, since they actually require skill to land.

    Is this the general consensus about the axesword? I just thought I was terrible with it since the Berzerker is my worst class. I always thought it lacked in range, forcing you to get really close.

    Now that the Sharpshooter has simulated projectiles, I agree with this concern. At a long range, you'll have to learn how to lead your target based on their distance.
    Back when he had a hitscan pistol, this would've allowed him to hit anyone from any range easily. Now that is no longer an issue.

    I've noticed lately that seemingly fully charged attacks are being PP'd by my enemies, but not just as the Skirmisher. Maybe I'm just dumb.

    I can't tell if the last two are non-issues or not. The whole thing about the Vikings is that they're all good at a lot of things and heavily blur the lines between specialized classes.
    The Gestir has one of the strongest projectiles in the game and yet he isn't a ranged class. The Berzerker is rather tanky for being a scout class and comes with a two-handed weapon.
    And when the Bondi is out, it's likely going to be a common sight to see him fighting MaA's, Skirm's, and Captain's with his seax.

    The Captain supporting other Captains is just a result of the Sharpshooter being ranged and the Skirmisher being too fast. That, and just poor team-play.
  • Chedda CheezChedda Cheez Senior
    edited 5:41AM
    I just imagined the HK special turned into one of those "Spin-to-Win" moves where you can move somewhat (obviously way less than either of the viking charges) while you whirl a few times. And yes, comically as though the sword will fly out of his hands at any moment.

    I only mention this because I too generally dislike the HK's special compared to pretty much every other class. Gotta slide into the middle of the action and hug everyone you wanna hit, then, as mentioned in the OP, hope no one takes advantage of the vulnerable moments. Kinda vulnerable enough waltzin' up into a crowd as such a slow tank everyone either nabs a hit on from behind or gets the heck away from.

    I agree with all the other points though. 'Cept SS I supose. I mean, his pistol has a sort of similar flight to arrows, so you have to lead, but its so quick and just a second of a puffy line of smoke that... Well, you don't really feel like it's trial and error like you do seeing physical arrows fly and ricochet / bounce about. It's just a smoke trail and somethin'-- walls or enemies-- burstin' with a little chunk of bullet. So, you have to treat it like a bow regardless as far as shooting goes. I'd complain about it doing less dmg per body shot compared to an arrow and wonder why they have around the same usability, but I tend to be dumb and either miss a point or don't know the facts exactly so uh... Ignore that last sentence I guess.
    Welcome to Cheez's PVKII Funtime Class!
    Rule #1: Have fun. [incredulous gasping ripples throughout the room]

    That concludes Funtime Class! We didn't have the funding for a lengthy seminar. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Stop by again for our next lesson: "Heavy Knight's Heaving Heart: How to Write Poetry for Swords!"

    76561197993232256.png
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited November 2015
    MrMoho wrote:

    Welcome, my bloodthirsty frenchies! It is another patch, and so it is time for me again to get all iffy and complain about everything. This time around I shall just talk about the little things that bother me about the game. Nothing world breaking (not that something like that exists right now), just the small issues of life, about the balance of certain classes, a potential HUD glitch that has been around since the beginning, and even some team-balance worries.

    The Sluggish Spinner

    Short Version:
    The Heavy Knights should not be fully immobile after his special is done dealing any damage.

    Long Version:
    Let me just say this: I hate the Heavy Knights special. It's slow, inflexible, lacks range, takes forever to charge and keeps the HK wide open. Well, the 'takes forever to charge' allegation is partly wrong, technically he can get it the fastes. In fact, if he gets two perfectly performed attacks (max charge + max velocity) he can get it in two swings! The only problem is that because of his slow movement and attack speed, he has way less opportunities to attack other players, not to mention getting in attacks with high velocity. Therefore it generally takes way longer for him to charge his special than others.

    But none of that is part of my actual complain. What I mainly have a problem with is that about a second after his special is done dealing any damage, he is still frozen in his animation and that way everybody around him can get a free hit on him. This is really bothersome, since when you use your special incorrectly, or even correctly but not everybody around got caught in it, even those without ranged weapons or a really long one can give him a good whack before he is done. Hell, faster classes can still do this when they only get partly hit by his spin-attack. This makes it the only special that easily, and safely, can be punished.

    During this second of vulnerability he at least should be able to block so his special is less punishing if used even slightly poor.


    HK special isn't too bad, there is a nice way to feint with like you're about to melee, immediately parry then special (or after a pp without the actual swing).

    I can agree though that the delay after the special could probably be reduced slightly but not enough to where you can't punish them missing their special.


    The Rapid-Fire Farting Frenchman


    A complain of mine already addressed elsewhere.
    Short version:
    Classes should not get extra special from mini-crits (currently only utilized in the Man-at-Arms special).

    Long Version:
    The Man-at-Arms special is perfectly fine. The slowdown, incapability to parry when affected and the velocity bonus of the MAA are all no problem. Even the mini-crits aren't unbalanced. What is is the fact that the Man-at-Arms, and everybody else, also get the extra mini-crit damage added to their special bar. This means that the MAA, despite requiring quite an amount of damage before he can use his special, regain it rather quickly after he is done farting, since there are still clouds lingering about when he is able to gain special again.

    Of course this is also a problem with his friends. I appreciate that the Heavy Knight gets his special quicker this way, but if that means that the Archer gets the same benefit I'd rather say neigh.

    Simply not allowing the mini-crit damage to be added to the special bar will be enough to fix this.


    MaA special is team-oriented but also is useful in a 1 person scenario. The higher amount required (as mentioned in the previous MaA special thread) is a reason for this as it is a global effect. To make it only affect the MaA would not only require making it stronger but also make the requirement to get filled up even lower (which would make that complaint of being able to gain special at the end while the special lingered slightly even more bothersome to ya).

    The special increase on the HK/Archer isn't significant gain but lets them land the hits to get the special at least. Main point is to aid them to get to the target with their attacks easier.

    Kling-Klang-Klunk Junk

    Short Version:
    The Sword and Axe-Combo is almost useless, especially on higher skill levels.

    Long Version:
    Oh, the Sword and Axe-Combo, a really fun concept and still very enjoyable to use every now and then, but let's be real; it might be very hard to counter for a dinah, since he doesn't know how to properly dodge and counter it, but once he does (which shouldn't take too long), fighting against a Berserker using only those shouldn't be a problem.

    The same goes from the Berserker. At first they seem very useful on how much damage they can dish out in a short time, but once one learns how to properly use the Bigaxe, the Sword and Axe-Combo is quickly forgotten about.

    Now how to make this thing at least in some situation useful? I really don't know. One idea I had was making it his anti-range-class-weapon, by allowing him to partly deflect damage from projectiles while blocking with the weapon, since he does have the biggest problem of any scout-class to chase down rangers (except if 'zerking, I guess), since he doesn't have anything to protect himself (like the MAA), isn't super fast (like the Skirmisher), or has anything to harass them at range (like the other two). I suppose something like a damage reduction and stun similar to a wrongly placed block might be too much, so maybe something a little bit less than that might make it fair, but also useful against ranged classes.


    The dual wield is useful when sneaking up on people and specialing on people who hold parry a lot to mitigate damage from the special. I will admit I wasn't a big fan of not being able to change directions while swinging anymore because it felt like an unnecessary nerf to the weapon (but not like it isn't that hard to pause for a brief moment to switch directions to trick the parry target).

    If something were to be added or changed to it I don't think deflecting projectiles would be the best idea. In the case of VS Archer this will be significantly more noticeable than if, say, against SS. Since he is fast that is his advantage already at catching them. Not to mention with the change to Archer now his arrows cannot be flicked to kite unless they charge it a bit so this isn't as much of an issue anymore (so far).

    I would probably like to see something else with it but nothing major, probably some QoL buff.

    Unsteady Hand McMuggin'

    I'm a little uncertain about adding this since the Sharpshooter latest boost, but I suppose I add it just for you guys to consider it.

    Short Version:
    When aiming down AND standing still, the Sharpshooter's Artisan Pistol should have perfect accuracy.

    Long Version:
    Aaah, the true reason the Sharpshooter is so wonky at long range, because he literally is wonky! Basically, his Artisan Pistol is not accurate, ever. No matter how hard you aim down and stand still, maybe even crouch just for good measures, the Pistol will never be 100% accurate.

    Now this isn't an issue at all on middle range, since the Pistol is still accurate enough to hit people precise on this distance. But once we get to long range, there is a very good chance that you won't hit a person not because you suck or just something absolutely unpredictable happened, nope, you just got unlucky.

    Because of this, if we just set aside human failure and, well, reality in general and just go by numbers, it is literally impossible to hit every single shot at long range. I have the feeling this was done on purpose, and, you know, with the latest patch this might be perfectly fine. Still, I'd say to at least consider making his Artisan Pistol fully accurate when he is aiming AND standing still. Otherwise, when he is moving and aiming, it should the way it currently is.


    SS was, as far as I knew, originally designed to primarily be proficient at mid-range combat to assist his close ranged Pirate allies and flee when necessary like them. This can also be seen in the way his shots travel so if you got hit from really far away from the flintlock you'd be like "what hit me from where".

    While we can compare to Archer in this manner, it is probably not in the best interest to act like a CS Sniper with something that is hard to see travelling (even with the new tracer thrown it it isn't that easy to see due to the speed).

    With the recent QoL buffs to SS (including a flintlock bullet travel speed buff to the speed of rifle's), we will watch and see where SS stands as well as Archer before we decide to start touching other things including number related ones. People have been really enjoying the changes to SS so far so again we'll continue to monitor before anything else.


    Too Quick for His Own Damn Good

    This is something that bothered me for a long time, and is actually a more or less a HUD glitch. The charge bar for attacks fills up slightly too fast. This is most apparent with the Skirmisher and almost not at all with anyone else. It is really bothersome when your bar starts to glow but you have to halt just for a fraction of a second longer before attacking.

    Again, almost never happens with any class besides the Skirmisher, with whom it happens all the time. Now I don't know how this whole HUD thing works, so please ridicule me if I'm wrong, but this seems like something very easy to fix. Just have the bar ever so slightly charge a little slower. True, the hard part would be to get it just right.


    These last two are more concerns about team play than actual complains and are prone to change once more classes get added. Still, I reckon you to read it if you want to know what I think the new classes should change once they get released.


    I never noticed this unless you are referring to gaining the special after swinging and have to wait for the swing to finish to special (in which it is more bothersome on slower characters than Skirmisher).


    Jack of all Trades, Master of All

    Short Version:
    The Huscarl is not better, but good enough at everything.

    Longer Version:
    A little team-balance issue I have with the Vikings. Granted, this is highly arguable, but in my opinion the Huscarl is just simply too good at too many things. Yes, he isn't as good at melee ranged support like the Gestir, or as good at scouting like the Berserker, but he is good enough.

    He just has the perfect combination of a high damage threshold, high damage, okay speed and variety in his gear to allow him to be used everywhere. Be it from defending to attacking point on the map or even up to chasing down ranged classes with his shield and throwing axes, there is just seemingly nothing this guy can't do. This is of course a running theme of the Vikings, being very varied, however with the Huscarl you might've gone a little overboard.

    Again, he isn't better at everything, but because of being so in other key situations, it is usually best to only pick Huscarl's if you want to win a round. They don't have ace team play or are the best at getting those annoying Archers, but hey, every situation that will be thrown at them they can manage.


    Huscarl was overshadowing his brothers for a long time but since the switcheroo with his swing speed and delay with HKs helped HK while tuning down Huscarl. As of this time Huscarl seems to be in a decent spot imho. It is possible he may be a little strong in close quarters but then I imagine a horde of HKs or Captains in close quarters and how scary they are as well.

    Me and My best Friend, Myself

    Short Version:
    Captain is an egocentric matey, meaning he only supports himself (Which I suppose keeps him in character).

    Long Version:
    The Captain might actually be one of the worst classes by his lonesome. He is not too fast, has a very short weapon, and even his utility items are rather unimpressive. Once he does get in range he deals loads of damage, but that is a feat hard to accomplish by himself. His special is also one of the best in the game, but rarely can it be readied up in the midst of battle.

    However, more so than any other class from any team, he benefits from a buddy that can help him overcome his flaws and turn him into something truly amazing. And this buddy just happens to be he himself.

    One Captain has trouble to get into range, multiple easily can flank the enemy team and lure them into each others Cutlasses. The damage of one Blunderbuss is hardly worth the reload, two heavily damage various classes. One Parrot is easily dealt with, three are an Archer's worst nightmare. A single Captain has trouble getting his special ready, but with other Captain-bro's at hook he can retreat behind them and get that cannonball in!

    Now all of this is absolutely okay, and actually great, it's just that his other two friends aren't contributing at all to that team play. I went over in great lengths how the Sharpshooter can support his mateys, but he himself gets almost none in return (3.3 made him a lot less dependent on... somebody, though).

    The Skirmisher isn't any better. He is a scout-class through and through, and that means that most of the time he is out and about somewhere by himself, backstabbing the opposing team. This is of course a great support, but does not have a whole lot to do with team play, he is just out there harassing the enemy. He doesn't need any help with that and only gives a very basic form of support in return: Delaying the enemy forces. I don't consider this team play since, well, he is hardly working together with other teammates.

    Of course this isn't such a gigantic problem. I guess I just want to say that I'd like to see more active team play with the Pirates between different classes.


    Captain probably takes a bit more experience than most of the other classes.

    His speed, after the buff, matches him with Archer, Gestir, SS and this gave quite a bit of power to him to close the gap easier and even gain those hits in a joust-situation. His blunderbus buff to move while reloading and make it less random damage (though again, more useful for when their armor is shreded) were nice QoL buffs for him. Just as Huscarl, SS, and every other class, we will keep an eye on Captain as well if there is some more love needed somewhere (like redirecting Parrot than randomly choosing to attack someone else when crossing paths with another target).

    Just to throw out there, Captain, while less ranged than Berserker, does more damage per swing than him.

    Nichi2EditCROP_zpscolnflbv.gifKarenPirate1Crop_zps5ccbfa57.gifNichi1CROP_zpspr3i3epd.gif
    http://steamcommunit...m/groups/aclans Join and be pro today!


    10402520_1443600839260675_3566335342614205908_nRESIZE_zpsf8423ece.jpg
    output_6Dn6Cs_zpse8ae5afc.gif
    tumblr_mq1t1bZGDA1r30985o1_400_zps948e174a.gif
    tumblr_mviov3cTGP1r8bshso1_500_zpsbada721a.gif
    "I like axes"
    --kokoronokawari
    loli loli loli loli loli loli loli loli

  • MrMohoMrMoho Senior
    edited November 2015
    @Koko

    Too Quick for His Own Damn Good
    That is not what I meant at all. Get a friend, have him block and start attacking him with the Skirmisher. Make sure that you start swinging as soon as the red charge bar starts glowing (takes a couple of tries, but after a while you should be able to do it regularly) and he will be able to perfect parry you. This should work with (almost) every class, though it's most apparent with the Skirmisher.


    The Rapid-Fire Farting Frenchman
    I was NOT talking about making the special only affect the MAA. I was talking about the extra damage you get from mini-crits not count towards the special bar, nothing else. It should stay global and all, the only issue I have is the speed at which you get another special with this extra damage.

    Me and My best Friend, Myself
    Again, you seem to misunderstand me. I was not complaining about the Captain (although the parrot should be more controllable), but the lack of team play between the three Pirate-Classes and how the Captain has better chemistry with himself (amazingly so, even) then them.


    Also, I feel like I very badly worded that last sentences in Kling-Klang-Klunk Junk. The damage reduction from blocking an projectile should be less and should maybe even stun him longer than if you wrongly block a melee attack. To better show it off in simple numbers (Not actual numbers of the damage reduce from blocking, mind you): Melee Block: 50% reduction, Range Block: 30% reduction.
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited 5:41AM
    Thought you were referring to the special bar. I do know there is a rare circumstance with Skirmisher and the full charge swing into perfect parry but I wasn't able to replicate it enough in a demo form and most of the time it seemed to involve with higher pinged people. If you have a demo send it in.

    The extra damage-to-special from special isn't really that significant as I mentioned. I suppose I could see it as slightly bothersome from the third team gaining extra special in general than the Knights (which I think is fine if it was just the Knights), we can probably look into it.

    I am not sure how the Captain doesn't have chemistry since he is tankier of the Pirates to wall with.

    Nichi2EditCROP_zpscolnflbv.gifKarenPirate1Crop_zps5ccbfa57.gifNichi1CROP_zpspr3i3epd.gif
    http://steamcommunit...m/groups/aclans Join and be pro today!


    10402520_1443600839260675_3566335342614205908_nRESIZE_zpsf8423ece.jpg
    output_6Dn6Cs_zpse8ae5afc.gif
    tumblr_mq1t1bZGDA1r30985o1_400_zps948e174a.gif
    tumblr_mviov3cTGP1r8bshso1_500_zpsbada721a.gif
    "I like axes"
    --kokoronokawari
    loli loli loli loli loli loli loli loli

  • shayologoshayologo Senior
    edited November 2015
    HK special is fine, it's very powerfull when you fight 2-3 ennemy and it's have a good range : better than sword modele

    SS pistol accuracy is already very good when aiming : on island open land i don't have probleme with accuracy at long range while aming (i am badest at short range)
    if you want 100% accuracy use your gun

    Bullet modele is not smaller than arrow modele? than can make bullet little harder for hit
  • MrMohoMrMoho Senior
    edited November 2015
    Why the Captain isn't a great team player (with others) I went over in some detail during one of the Sharpshooter threads.

    Basically I find that he isn't meaty enough or has too little range to be considered an effective wall by me.

    When we take a Sharpshooter plus Captain against, let's say, a Berserker plus Gestir scenario, the Captain does not have enough range to get in close to the Gestir, nor can the Sharpshooter help him with that. At the same time, he also will have trouble with the Berserker because he isn't fast enough to catch him, nor can he properly protect himself against his Bigaxe since he can't perfect parry it.
    Again, in both cases the Sharpshooter only provides the most basic of support: Damaging the guy that his friend damages. And while the Sharpshooter might be better at burst damage then the Archer, he isn’t at damage over time, meaning the fight will take a bit longer (unless the attackers came in already crippled), and since the Captain is the heavy class with the least health, he tends to retreat or die early.

    When the two decide to go for the Sharpshooter, the Captain has trouble helping him. He won't be able to catch a Berserker running past him with his short weapon or get him off of the SS differently. He can catch the Gestir, but can't do anything to actually stop him from attacking the Sharpshooter other than killing him, I guess.

    If the Sharpshooter decides to hide behind the Captain, problem number is the case again. He cannot properly deal with two guys when his friends is not helping him getting in close, something an other Captain can help with, partly even the Skirmisher, but not the Sharpshooter.

    When we compare this to a Heavy Knight and Archer combo, this will look a whole lot different. The Heavy Knight might be slower in every regard than the Captain, but he has loads of bulk and range. He has no trouble taking on either the Gestir or Berserker in a melee fight by his lonesome. But when taking on two guys you are always at a disadvantage, but fear not, you got your ranged buddy.

    The Heavy Knight won't have trouble taking on either the Gestir or Berserker, he does not need any help at melee range at all. Where he does need help is chasing, dealing with ranged classes and retreating. All troubles the Captain doesn't have.

    Chasing and dealing with ranged classes will be no problem for an Archer, or any ranged class for that matter, since they have technically an unlimited range. That means you can't run away from them (unless there is cover, of course), and when it comes to dealing with ranged classes, both are on equal ground. Helping with retreating also is no problem because of the Crossbow knock-back.

    When it comes to helping the Archer, he can easily hide behind that slab of steel. The Heavy Knight can stay in a battle longer than a Captain, does not require melee ranged support like the Captain, and has an easier time hitting people trying to get around him towards his Archer because of his longer range. When none of these things come into play and everybody is attacking the Heavy Knight, the very basic form of 'Attacking the same guys I'm attacking'-support is all the Heavy Knight needs.

    I'd like to mention that I am not trying to say that Heavy Knight or Archer are better than either the Captain or the Sharpshooter, just that they have way better team play. Granted, to have better team play than other teams is a part of the Knights philosophy, but I'd like to see more of that with the Pirates (again, between different classes. Captain supports Captain super duper well)

    This lack of a proper wall for the Sharpshooter also led me to say to have him focus more on long range. It will keep him out of the trouble zone, allowing him to support his mateys safely. In mid range he just doesn't get enough support to be effective. Explosives might help, but they tend to stun your buddies.

    Of course with the latest patch this might be very well the case. He can reload his rifle while still dodging ranged attack, meaning he doesn't have to go and run behind cover, allowing him to get out a very nice stream of long range rifle shots. And he also isn't useless in Trinket Wars which forces him into mid range, since his pistol is very decent, and he can reload his rifle while still following them to the next battle.


    Also, I shall go and grab El Negro to give you a video concerning the charging bar.
  • shayologoshayologo Senior
    edited 5:41AM
    bad exemple, really depend player skill, luck and other thing

    But archer is the best class for support he deal very good damage at long range
  • Links121995Links121995 Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited 5:41AM
    Being the tankiest class for a given faction is not enough to be a proper tank. The Captain has neither shield nor large weapon, nor as much vitality or damage as the real tanks, but he has speed that they lack. His Blunderbuss is useful for quickly tidying away what his teammates put holes in, and the parrot is good for quick distractions against enemies that are trying to ignore the Captain/fire arrows.

    Berserker & Gestir vs Sharpshooter & Captain.
    The Gestir is the weaker of the two, but he has a shield and will absorb the high burst damage that the Pirates use to skew fights in their favor.
    The Berserker is completely defenseless, and would either be blown away by gunfire, or forced to hide behind the Gestir. Given that the Gestir is using his shield to avoid being gunned down, he cannot use a javelin to start the fight as he would probably prefer to.
    The threat of concentrated gunfire is working heavily in the Pirate's favor at this point. A few pistol shots will tear the Gestir's shield to pieces, and then both Vikings will be vulnerable.
    If both the Captain and Sharpshooter focus their guns on the Berserker, he'll be dead in a matter of seconds, and the Gestir can be safely kited by the Sharpshooter with the aid of the Captain (hot on the Gestir's heels) and his trusty parrot.

    A scenario more in favor of the Vikings is one in which the Gestir accepts his inevitable demise and simply launches a javelin at the Sharpshooter before taking a bullet to the head and pulling out his shield to avoid taking buckshot to the chest, followed by the Berserker rushing the Sharpshooter to get him out of the way.
    Given that it would be at that moment or not at all, the Captain would be forced to use his Blunderbuss on the Berserker, kick him, and unleash the parrot on him as well.
    Odds are, neither the Berserker nor the Sharpshooter will survive. At this point, the Gestir will either have chased down the Captain with his spear, or backed off a bit for another javelin. If that second javelin hits the Captain, he'll probably get enough damage for a special to finish him off.

    The best defense really is a good offense. It depends on how much distance there is between the two groups though, as long distances would turn the Vikings into targets, while cramped quarters would turn the Pirates into mincemeat.


    You say Heavy Knights can intercept enemies better because of their range. What about the Captain's speed? Is that completely irrelevant? Sure, one might have to block one attack from a Heavy Knight as they run by, but a Captain cannot be left behind or ignored unless one is faster than he is, which leads me to my next point.

    The parrot. It's not much when the enemy sees it coming, but when they're trying to focus on something else, it can buy one's teammates the time they need to realize that with the time one's parrot has bought them, they can double back to the relative safety of the Captain/stab the other guy in the face.

    I see the Captain as a rallying point for the other Pirate classes, specifically, when they've unloaded all of their gunpowder and need a little back-up to remain relevant (that is, to continue to contribute to the fight without running away to reload or something equally cowardly).
    8gQi4T5.png
  • MrMohoMrMoho Senior
    edited November 2015
    Looks like the Too Qucik for His Own Damn Good glitch, or the red charge bar charging too fast, has been somehow fixed with 3.3. Mysterious.
  • edited 5:41AM
    I don't know. I kill plenty of experienced players without breaking a sweat while charging with sword axe. It's a cakewalk.
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited 5:41AM

    Being the tankiest class for a given faction is not enough to be a proper tank. The Captain has neither shield nor large weapon, nor as much vitality or damage as the real tanks, but he has speed that they lack. His Blunderbuss is useful for quickly tidying away what his teammates put holes in, and the parrot is good for quick distractions against enemies that are trying to ignore the Captain/fire arrows.

    Berserker & Gestir vs Sharpshooter & Captain.
    The Gestir is the weaker of the two, but he has a shield and will absorb the high burst damage that the Pirates use to skew fights in their favor.
    The Berserker is completely defenseless, and would either be blown away by gunfire, or forced to hide behind the Gestir. Given that the Gestir is using his shield to avoid being gunned down, he cannot use a javelin to start the fight as he would probably prefer to.
    The threat of concentrated gunfire is working heavily in the Pirate's favor at this point. A few pistol shots will tear the Gestir's shield to pieces, and then both Vikings will be vulnerable.
    If both the Captain and Sharpshooter focus their guns on the Berserker, he'll be dead in a matter of seconds, and the Gestir can be safely kited by the Sharpshooter with the aid of the Captain (hot on the Gestir's heels) and his trusty parrot.

    A scenario more in favor of the Vikings is one in which the Gestir accepts his inevitable demise and simply launches a javelin at the Sharpshooter before taking a bullet to the head and pulling out his shield to avoid taking buckshot to the chest, followed by the Berserker rushing the Sharpshooter to get him out of the way.
    Given that it would be at that moment or not at all, the Captain would be forced to use his Blunderbuss on the Berserker, kick him, and unleash the parrot on him as well.
    Odds are, neither the Berserker nor the Sharpshooter will survive. At this point, the Gestir will either have chased down the Captain with his spear, or backed off a bit for another javelin. If that second javelin hits the Captain, he'll probably get enough damage for a special to finish him off.

    The best defense really is a good offense. It depends on how much distance there is between the two groups though, as long distances would turn the Vikings into targets, while cramped quarters would turn the Pirates into mincemeat.


    You say Heavy Knights can intercept enemies better because of their range. What about the Captain's speed? Is that completely irrelevant? Sure, one might have to block one attack from a Heavy Knight as they run by, but a Captain cannot be left behind or ignored unless one is faster than he is, which leads me to my next point.

    The parrot. It's not much when the enemy sees it coming, but when they're trying to focus on something else, it can buy one's teammates the time they need to realize that with the time one's parrot has bought them, they can double back to the relative safety of the Captain/stab the other guy in the face.

    I see the Captain as a rallying point for the other Pirate classes, specifically, when they've unloaded all of their gunpowder and need a little back-up to remain relevant (that is, to continue to contribute to the fight without running away to reload or something equally cowardly).


    Pretty much. Captain has the speed and the damage to tear down a Berserker NP even if he is all in the Archer's face. He still creates that sense of walling like the other tankish classes because I know just how much damage Captain can do to me while I am hitting his buddy.

    Nichi2EditCROP_zpscolnflbv.gifKarenPirate1Crop_zps5ccbfa57.gifNichi1CROP_zpspr3i3epd.gif
    http://steamcommunit...m/groups/aclans Join and be pro today!


    10402520_1443600839260675_3566335342614205908_nRESIZE_zpsf8423ece.jpg
    output_6Dn6Cs_zpse8ae5afc.gif
    tumblr_mq1t1bZGDA1r30985o1_400_zps948e174a.gif
    tumblr_mviov3cTGP1r8bshso1_500_zpsbada721a.gif
    "I like axes"
    --kokoronokawari
    loli loli loli loli loli loli loli loli

  • NiveNive PVKII Team
    edited November 2015
    Yeah, the Captain has staying-power from sheer damage output rather than overblown defenses like the other two tanks.
    He's a force to be reckoned with, and quite frankly, I think he's the scariest of the three tank classes.

    Edit: Here's a nitpick of my own. Ever since I started playing this game, I've had an issue that I'm assuming affects everyone but I've never asked...
    More often than not, the fuse noise for the Skirmisher's keg will cut off and I'll have to guess where the keg is coming from and how much fuse it has left.
    Sometimes, the sound won't play at all and I'll get keg-ganked out of nowhere.
  • edited 5:41AM
    Maybe you should be able to tell when the keg explodes other than the skirmisher that threw it.
Sign In or Register to comment.