Knight Lord Development

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Comments

  • TrarTrar Senior
    edited 4:47PM
    Well, that's my question about the flail answered, at least. Glad to know others like the Harkinian idea as well.
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  • NiveNive Beta Tester
    edited 4:47PM
    I'm really interested in what directions the Lord's play-style will be taken in. The only parallel currently in the game is the Captain, who is supposed to be the Pirate's Lord-tier class but currently occupies the Tank role in the absence of the Buccaneer. Does this mean the Lord will be about as tanky as the Captain? Or will he be less tanky and act as a base-line for an eventually nerfed Captain once the Buccaneer is out? I'm pretty sure none of these questions have answers, but they're fun to think about.

    What will the Lord bring to the Knight's round table that none of the current three bring? Will he fill a role in between the Man-at-Arms and Heavy Knight, someone beefier but slower than the MaA and someone less meaty but faster than the HK? What makes his weapons interesting and unique? I'm *really* curious how his flail is going to work. Will his warhammer's attacks take advantage of it's duel sided nature? Maybe the pick side will be very effective at breaking through other shields and the blunt side effective at dealing armor damage? How much life will he have, maybe about as much as the Gestir, given his age? He's visually about as armor clad as the Huscarl, give or take, so maybe he'll have lower life piggy-backing on high armor?

    And then the big ones, is he actually going to have a drum? If he does, will it do what it's always been said it would? What's his special going to be? Is he going to have another weapon in the same vein as the Captain's Parrot? What would that be? I'm really excited for a class that isn't so cut and dry like the Bondi is. I can't wait!
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    Applied normal maps, 2x 2048 textures for body and weapons. 9854 tris. Ropes suffered a bit from the optimization but results are decent. Next is texturing

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  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited May 2015
    I must say that this is truly phenomenal. This makes the MAA looks like the tip of the iceberg for the future of PVK2 :') :icon_viking2:

    While the female Assassin honestly looks a little lackluster, I'm sure her final version will be just as great.
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  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited 4:47PM

    Yea.... when I created her I had less practice lol, will attempt again

    Her arms and legs are seriously not even sticks, they're twigs lol.

    And her hood is a bit too fluffy, it doesn't look right on her head.
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  • FinlordFinlord Senior
    edited 4:47PM
    I agree with the hood but otherwise she looks fine to me.
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited 4:47PM
    Eh, based the model off of human reference, she's an assassin, should be skinny and nimble.
  • AstragorAstragor Senior
    edited 4:47PM
    Awesome job guys. I am proud. Can't wait! So hyped for the assassin, since that's going to be the first female character in the game. Also, what's Lords' the drum & mallet for? Taunt?
  • Links121995Links121995 Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited 4:47PM
    Inspiring beats.
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  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited 4:47PM
    Will update tomorrow
  • Dr.ClericDr.Cleric Senior
    edited 4:47PM

    Will update tomorrow


    7drHiqr.gif
    “I don't have moments of weakness. I'm Rik Mayall.” -Rik Mayall
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    Results will get better. Sorry, I'm learning this new program while trying to texture the character as I'm learning... please bare with me. Belt/straps not even touched yet, still got a bit of work to do, Chain mail is looking a bit muddy, I plan to increase the levels in crazybump. 10k polys, 2048tx

    In regards to his crown and such, work on separately

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  • ColonelColonel Finger Lickin' Good PVKII Team
    edited 4:47PM
    Colonel salutes you. So far...so great!

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    Everything has its beginning, hop aboard the grogboat!  
    Colonel: Co-Lead | Level Designer

  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited 4:47PM
    Orange........

    Sorry but straight up that shade of orange is just no. Should be blue like the rest of the Knights.
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  • ColonelColonel Finger Lickin' Good PVKII Team
    edited 4:47PM

    Orange........

    Sorry but straight up that shade of orange is just no. Should be blue like the rest of the Knights.


    For team sakes, yes, it will eventually have a knight colour. But damn orange looks nice!

    Our teams have primary and secondary theme colours. Knights is pretty open, but safe bet is blue, white, gold, and brown. Perhaps the Lord is predominantly a deep purple.

    xq0LCrG.png
    Everything has its beginning, hop aboard the grogboat!  
    Colonel: Co-Lead | Level Designer

  • Major ChulainMajor Chulain Senior
    edited 4:47PM
    don't forget the knights had red chainmail aswell back in the days
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  • schatzmeisterschatzmeister PVKII Team, Beta Tester
    edited 4:47PM
    A blue tunic with an english coat of arms in the center would look fantastic, I believe. The orange really is a bit to orangy.

    Will Turner: You didn't beat me. You ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you.
    Jack Sparrow: That's not much incentive for me to fight fair, then, is it?

  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited 4:47PM
    Yea, when coloring it, wasn't paying attention to team color, will change to blue, easy fix :)
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited 4:47PM
    Zombie Mode? lol, jk

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  • AGSMAAGSMA The Antichrist has Resurrected PVKII Team, Beta Tester
    edited 4:47PM
    Why do his eyes look like something straight out of an early 2000s game? Don't get me wrong, it looks great and all, but that look is too much Uncanny Valley for my tastes. Other than that it looks great textured, appart from the already mentioned orange tunic.

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  • schatzmeisterschatzmeister PVKII Team, Beta Tester
    edited 4:47PM

    Zombie Mode? lol, jk


    If only, I think that would be a superb co-op mode. One can only hope.

    Will Turner: You didn't beat me. You ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you.
    Jack Sparrow: That's not much incentive for me to fight fair, then, is it?

  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    Update, Day 2 texturing. More work on the face and changed his tunic... may not be exactly the correct team color, but it's just a stand in atm. Sorry, for it taking so long. I teach 3 different 3d arts classes at a college as well as researching new programs and techniques myself, hard to find spare moments sometimes
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  • Dr.ClericDr.Cleric Senior
    edited 4:47PM
    Splendid work chap!
    “I don't have moments of weakness. I'm Rik Mayall.” -Rik Mayall
  • DisturvingDisturving Senior
    edited May 2015
    Dear James Davis

    I have noticed two problems with how the Lord is dressed. The neck strap for his shield is going over his left shoulder instead of his right. Assuming he is right handed, this is a problem because it is going to have to go over his head and right arm for him to hold it, and then the neck strap is not going to be on him anymore.

    The other is that he has forgotten to put any padding under his coif. He can look forward to the about same chance of skull fracture he would have with a bare head. He should fire his squire for making him look like a 20th century or 21st century actor in a poorly researched motion pecture. Here is an effigy of a chap who wore his coif and shield well, William Longespée Earl of Salisbury:

    william_longespee_s24_r1588_large.jpg
    You should notice the shape of his headwear over the padding he is wearing. Rather than proudly having his face jutting out of his armour, he kept his face well protected, including his neck and chin and mouth. This was because he wanted to survive fights. You should also notice that the strap is over his right shoulder. He may grab the handle with his left hand and, with the neck strap still on him, use the shield. Should he fall off his horse the neck strap may help him retain his shield.


    Please understand that I mean you no personal insult at all. Unless we know better we all assume that modern depictions of old things are accurate.

    Yours sincerely
    Me
    The reason why my writing here is so formal is that people inevitably get annoyed at my writing, so sticking to the rules of formal writing is my attempt to avoid people taking me the wrong way and getting annoyed.
    Complaining and expressing disagreement and arguing are very good things to do.
    If something written by me here does not look formal, it may be because I tried to make it look better than it could were it formal, or it might be that it seems all right to me without it being formal.
  • SphynxSphynx Senior
    edited May 2015
    There are a few points I had to think about, because I'm not too familiar with the technical details. I hope the following points are of some help:
    1. You sculpted all the pieces of the chainmail armor in your source model, which looked good there, but the loss of detail that occurs during the conversion process to an in-game model has heavily affected its appearance. In addition, the effects on the chainmail armor make it look less like iron or steel and more like chrome. Maybe the Huscarl's armor with its texture and effects could be worth to check out:
      ifq6zxj.jpg

    2. As you said, the rope has suffered quite a bit, too. I think a simple belt could look decent on an in-game model. It could be attached to either his shield or – like the Heavy Knight has it – to his body:
      G5wvVWy.png2OAqZv2.png

    3. The eyes and mouth are probably going to be replaced with the special animated ones that all the PVKII characters have and it might look a lot different then, but I feel that some details that are present in other in-game characters have not made it through the conversion process. It might be that those are added in an upcoming step, but I'm not a modeler and this is just what I observed. It's especially visible in the beard area:
      tryrynm.png
      It also appears as if the shadows in the Lord's face have all been painted directly on the texture. I'm not sure how it has been done with other characters like the Captain, but maybe there could be an exchange of knowledge especially in the area of tricks, techniques and workflows with members of the team who have already created models for PVKII and with the coders. I'd assume PVKII has a few additional mod-specific things to keep in mind in comparison to other Source engine games.
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  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    @Disturving

    No worries. Check reference concept art regarding strap, essentially following design referring to what side its on, he could be left handed, just depicted what was given. As for shield I'm certain were not going to see a full animation of him pulling the strap over his head before equipping the shield in the game. Thinking about it, may just be too much of a hassle having a strap altogether during the animation process of it being on his arm, so may be removed completely and we'll have to just use our imaginations, ala Dragon Age on how a shield stays on his back without anything to secure it to his person. As for the padding, that's a good point, but our game has a Pirate Captain that throws a parrot at you so I'm not sure how "real" were really trying to go for in this game lol, but that is an intriguing assessment and will put it under consideration as I continue to flush out the model :) thank you very much for your suggestions. My thoughts though are that he may have that padding on, but possibly the chainmail is overhanging and you can't see it.

    >___< and are you saying Braveheart is a very poorly researched movie?!!!! You're probably right lol
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    @Sphynx

    1) It's still a Work In Progress

    2) I like the strap Idea, may do that

    3) Haven't received dev feedback on the model as of yet but from the models I have brought into maya and researched it looked like a single solid piece (body features wise) minus accessories, weapons, etc that are separate

    4) You do what you need to under budget constraints for the model. I am certain that when the model is in game, it will cast shadows based on light direction, but i mainly just created the shadows that will always be in place, due to wrinkles, gear, etc. And cast shadows will be on top of that. If I need to downgrade the quality a bit, or remove anything down the road won't be too much of a hassle to do so, will await what fellows devs think. But I'm not just creating the model for the game, but also for myself so I will continuously change and push things. But sometimes the time constraints or necessity of a model will override constant revisions and as an artist will just have make a model in it's entirety to the best of your efforts and suffer from a few of its shortcomings in the end. And nearly nothing I do, doesn't go passed the other developers of the game and will certainly go through the asset check assessment before making it in game.

    Essentially, my criteria, make badass model utilizing under 10k poly budget and minimal textures and texture size constraints with a maya model of a different character that I researched and saw had no articulation or cavities in the face for separate eyeballs or what not. My assumption, animated pupils, which in that case I would remove the pupils in mine which is very easy and rest of the features are rigged and verts are tweaked make various expressions. Certain this model will go through several revisions before it meets the finish line and I'm prepared for that

    I painted in some of the occlusion shadows because there is literally no articulation on the model itself that would cast such shadows in game, one of the many things you deal with when creating low resolution assets under strict budgetary constraints

    Thank you very much for your critique. It was very concise.
  • DisturvingDisturving Senior
    edited May 2015
    Here are some images of shields for reference:

    Sir John Bulmer, 1270
    john_bulmer_s58_r940_medium.jpg

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    Unknown
    furness_abbey_knight_a_s82_r1456_medium.jpg


    Unknown, 1310
    lustleigh_s6_r118_medium.jpg


    Mister Be Bacon, 1320.
    unknown_de_bacon_s2_r53_medium.jpg


    Sir Robert Ryther, 1327.
    robert_ryther_s58_r966_medium.jpg

    45-17_gallery.jpg


    Sources:
    www.effigiesandbrasses.com
    www.manuscriptminiatures.com
    The reason why my writing here is so formal is that people inevitably get annoyed at my writing, so sticking to the rules of formal writing is my attempt to avoid people taking me the wrong way and getting annoyed.
    Complaining and expressing disagreement and arguing are very good things to do.
    If something written by me here does not look formal, it may be because I tried to make it look better than it could were it formal, or it might be that it seems all right to me without it being formal.
  • DisturvingDisturving Senior
    edited May 2015
    There is a limit of ten images per post.



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    Referenced in the post below:

    1255-3_gallery.jpg
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    CDQWWJMWEAE1JVa.jpg
    The reason why my writing here is so formal is that people inevitably get annoyed at my writing, so sticking to the rules of formal writing is my attempt to avoid people taking me the wrong way and getting annoyed.
    Complaining and expressing disagreement and arguing are very good things to do.
    If something written by me here does not look formal, it may be because I tried to make it look better than it could were it formal, or it might be that it seems all right to me without it being formal.
  • DisturvingDisturving Senior
    edited May 2015
    Here are some different pictures that may be interesting:

    Edit: Removed most of the images because although they show different ways of wearing the shield, making them possibly interesting, they are not relevant enough to the PVKII lord.


    England, 1225
    Sir Roger de Hilary, England, 1399?
    They both have the same name, yet look different oddly.
    roger_de_hilary_s198_r4762_medium.jpg9932-0.jpg
    The back of Roger de Hilary's shield, showing how it is held, and also where the guige strap joins: http://effigiesandbr..._s198_r4767.jpg

    I could not add them to my previous post because it would have added up to 14 images.


    Edit on re-reading James Davis's post:

    @Disturving
    As for shield I'm certain were not going to see a full animation of him pulling the strap over his head before equipping the shield in the game. Thinking about it, may just be too much of a hassle having a strap altogether during the animation process of it being on his arm,
    ...
    My thoughts though are that he may have that padding on, but possibly the chainmail is overhanging and you can't see it.

    A lot of* medieval artwork that shows people holding that sort of shield shows the neck-strap still on their neck, and some of it shows the person without his arm through the forearm straps, so the shield is held on four points; where the hand is, the two places where the neck-strap attaches, and where his elbow pushes against it. This may mean that it would be easy to have him use his shield properly, which is nice because often because of the limitations of video games we have to miss things out or change them to make it work nicely. To handle his shield he could reach for the handle and pull in in front of him, and to stop handling his shield he could just let go of it, not actually using the forearm-strap, fitting the lightning-draw of PVKII. There are some pictures of this added to the post above because of the picture limit for this post. Edit: Because I have removed most of the images from this, I have just now added four more images to this post, showing this manner of holding a shield, to the bottom of this.

    *Some of the artwork I've seen with someone using such a shield without the neck strap has him holding a Norman shield out just with their hand, a bit like with a boss-held shield.

    Because the coif is so close to his skin, if he did have cloth beneath it then it would not be enough to count as life-saving padding. I've been told that if mail is not worn over something tough, it ruins what it's worn over. When coifs are depicted in medieval paintings, it is clear that there is substantial padding beneath. I have seen more than once in motion pictures actors comfortably wearing a coif just over their hair without complaint. That is a good example of the costume designers copying each other instead of copying actuality, and so copying each other's mistakes.


    1094-34_gallery.jpg
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    The reason why my writing here is so formal is that people inevitably get annoyed at my writing, so sticking to the rules of formal writing is my attempt to avoid people taking me the wrong way and getting annoyed.
    Complaining and expressing disagreement and arguing are very good things to do.
    If something written by me here does not look formal, it may be because I tried to make it look better than it could were it formal, or it might be that it seems all right to me without it being formal.
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