Ranged classes ruin the game

On a server today, I got into a argument about if ranged classes ruin the game, I beleive they don't and make the game more varied. Surley the only way you can say they are bad is if you don't know how to counter it.

Please say if you think classes like the Sharpshooter and archer espeically ruin the games experiance.

Comments

  • Cap1Cap1 Land Lubber! Banned
    edited 4:21PM
    Another promising positive thread, I have high hopes for this one !
  • Major ChulainMajor Chulain Senior
    edited 4:21PM
    nice attitude
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  • UberMannUberMann Level Designer PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited 4:21PM
    Ranged classes do not ruin the game, they ruin a player's mindset.
    You can not fight a ranged class the same way you can fight a melee class, this means one must think and act differently. Changing up your playstyle whenever you deal with a certain enemy is challenging and can get tiresome. But they can be taken down, given the right circumstances and a bit of teamwork, as has been discovered in numerous discussions about ranged classes in the past.
  • DinahDinah Skirmisher's wench PVKII Team
    edited 4:21PM
    The reason this complain is common is what i believe to be the "Island/arena syndrome", ranged classes on these maps are always a nuisance.
    Take for example the path from vikings to knights, some archers like to just sit there and camp all day running away when try to combat them, this ends up becoming a rage fest and nobody is happy (except for the troll archers).
    Arena has a simmilar problem with ranged combat, a ranged class can shoot pretty much anyone at any time making it difficult dealing with them.
    And as we all know these two maps are the only one people play.

    Try to play other maps or something, if that don't work you might as well employ pansy tactics and cower your way around them and then dealing with them when they get overwhelmed.
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  • Cap1Cap1 Land Lubber! Banned
    edited 4:21PM
    Hentai'd!
  • I_Davidian_II_Davidian_I Land Lubber! Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited 4:21PM
    Dinah wrote:

    The reason this complain is common is what i believe to be the "Island/arena syndrome", ranged classes on these maps are always a nuisance.
    Take for example the path from vikings to knights, some archers like to just sit there and camp all day running away when try to combat them, this ends up becoming a rage fest and nobody is happy (except for the troll archers).
    Arena has a simmilar problem with ranged combat, a ranged class can shoot pretty much anyone at any time making it difficult dealing with them.
    And as we all know these two maps are the only one people play.

    Try to play other maps or something, if that don't work you might as well employ pansy tactics and cower your way around them and then dealing with them when they get overwhelmed.


    Don't forget Cathedral also, with its mass amount of open space. Not really any other maps that are soo open for range classes after that however, different maps and game types result in different play styles. That is the beauty of this game :D

    A pair of working hands will achieve more than thousands of pair of hands praying

  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited September 2013
    UberMann wrote:

    Ranged classes do not ruin the game, they ruin a player's mindset.
    You can not fight a ranged class the same way you can fight a melee class, this means one must think and act differently. Changing up your playstyle whenever you deal with a certain enemy is challenging and can get tiresome. But they can be taken down, given the right circumstances and a bit of teamwork, as has been discovered in numerous discussions about ranged classes in the past.


    Dinah wrote:

    The reason this complain is common is what i believe to be the "Island/arena syndrome", ranged classes on these maps are always a nuisance.
    Take for example the path from vikings to knights, some archers like to just sit there and camp all day running away when try to combat them, this ends up becoming a rage fest and nobody is happy (except for the troll archers).
    Arena has a simmilar problem with ranged combat, a ranged class can shoot pretty much anyone at any time making it difficult dealing with them.
    And as we all know these two maps are the only one people play.

    Try to play other maps or something, if that don't work you might as well employ pansy tactics and cower your way around them and then dealing with them when they get overwhelmed.


    You both are no fun at all posting before me these things which are 100% true =(

    But yes, Cathedral is also another as Davidian points out. If there is an issue it is likely the map (Cathedral, Arena), the players mentality (Island = DM mode for most people), and/or just lack of a feature like spawn protection (Arena).

    Incredibly surprised to hear you complain though about ranged over Huscarl which was the basis of most of your complaints, though you always find something to complain about for any class or weapon =p If you are just venting you should prolly take a breather and reassess what you will be saying and you will likely see what the above have posted in your mind.

    Edit: Need a sticky for people to vent about range classes and merge all of the ones that show up there lol <_<

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  • KNUDA.knatchKNUDA.knatch Senior
    edited September 2013
    Dinah wrote:

    The reason this complain is common is what i believe to be the "Island/arena syndrome"


    Sooner or later someone should write an essay on this and have it be the loading screen for both maps. I ran into a player the other day that had never played any other map than those two and based everything he said on those maps. It's like talking to a brick wall. On another note: I don't really mind that 80% of the servers are island and/or arena servers but when those kids spill out into the other servers and start voting for arena and island I just lose my shirley. But it's not as bad as people who base everything on those two maps and think classes should be custom tailored after them uggh.
  • bERt0rbERt0r Senior
    edited 4:21PM
    What I think would be an option to deal with the ranged weapons would be nerfing their damage but giving them a certain degree of armor penetration (possibly different values for each weapon). This would make arrows/bullets less effective vs chasing classes like skirmishers and berserkers (and possibly maa) and more effective against the tanks like hk and huscarl. I am thinking of a rock, paper, scissors system which is already there to some extent: ranged beats tank, tank beats chaser, chaser beats ranged.

    Right now I feel ranged classes have an easier time against skirmishers and berserkers than hks and huscarls. The gestir and the captain are in kind of an awkward spot since based on the class conception, they are one of their kind right now (long range melee and lord class).

    Imho the intoduction of the sharpshooter was the "downfall" for the Berserker. With that I mean he went from godlike to balanced while the huscarl is now slightly op. It is common to see huscarl only viking teams now wrecking house. A team full of huscarls can tank so much damage in a lms that sharpshooter/archer teams often run out of ammo or simply get overrun.

    I am by no means an advocate of cowardish hit-or-shoot-and-run tactics and condemn any possible way of buffing these vile classes, I just feel that the fast classes should be better against ranged classes than they are now.
    Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes, somthing to something, Yaarrrrrgh!
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  • KNUDA.knatchKNUDA.knatch Senior
    edited 4:21PM
    bERt0r wrote:

    I am by no means an advocate of cowardish hit-or-shoot-and-run tactics and condemn any possible way of buffing these vile classes


    This couldn't have anything to do with our 1v1v1 earlier today? That was you right? hahaha.
  • ThatOneBoxThatOneBox Senior
    edited 4:21PM
    bERt0r wrote:

    What I think would be an option to deal with the ranged weapons would be nerfing their damage but giving them a certain degree of armor penetration (possibly different values for each weapon). This would make arrows/bullets less effective vs chasing classes like skirmishers and berserkers (and possibly maa) and more effective against the tanks like hk and huscarl. I am thinking of a rock, paper, scissors system which is already there to some extent: ranged beats tank, tank beats chaser, chaser beats ranged.

    Right now I feel ranged classes have an easier time against skirmishers and berserkers than hks and huscarls. The gestir and the captain are in kind of an awkward spot since based on the class conception, they are one of their kind right now (long range melee and lord class).

    Imho the intoduction of the sharpshooter was the "downfall" for the Berserker. With that I mean he went from godlike to balanced while the huscarl is now slightly op. It is common to see huscarl only viking teams now wrecking house. A team full of huscarls can tank so much damage in a lms that sharpshooter/archer teams often run out of ammo or simply get overrun.

    I am by no means an advocate of cowardish hit-or-shoot-and-run tactics and condemn any possible way of buffing these vile classes, I just feel that the fast classes should be better against ranged classes than they are now.


    this could be an intersting concept. like in chivalry, there are two types of arrows to choose from, standard or i think it was bodkin. it would make sense for the archer to use the bodkin arrows because he WAS dealing with armored foes before he was 'transported' to the pvkii arena. (if we actually pay attention to that silly "journal entry" story hehe:P) i feel that could be a good balance for him. as stated somewhere else, (not sure if it was this "archer hax" thread or the other one) you could also try having the archer not shoot in the air. that would force him to use his sword more instead of crouch jumping and "surfing" a half circle in the air to land behind you and keep shooting while in the process. another viable option might be to have the archer lose his arrow charge when he gets hit. also forcing him to use his butterknife. in 2.2 the archer was quite slow while he had an arrow loaded, you also want to try bringing that too. plenty of different ideas to try.
  • bERt0rbERt0r Senior
    edited September 2013
    The thing is, i think the archer is in a good place. I am more concerned about the sharpshooter. I find myself wrecking havoc with the class even though I dont put in a lot of playtime. The hitscan artisan pistol is just so strong... The only thing I dont like about the archer is how shield bashes don't cancel his attack. When I bash an archer, he should be stunned long enough for at least my shield to be blocking damage again.

    KNUDA.knatch, no this was something I had in mind for some time now. Sure it was me, pvkii community aint that large :)
    Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes, somthing to something, Yaarrrrrgh!
    I be pro grammar!
  • BadGuyBadGuy Senior
    edited 4:21PM
    M8s.
    "if you lived near me I would've drowned you in a bucket of your mothers blood" - Wolfy Snackrib
    QUOTE (Sven Svennson @ Mar 9 2010, 04:12 AM) »
    Maybe I need a break from PVK.

  • ThatOneBoxThatOneBox Senior
    edited 4:21PM
    bERt0r wrote:

    The thing is, i think the archer is in a good place. I am more concerned about the sharpshooter. I find myself wrecking havoc with the class even though I dont put in a lot of playtime. The hitscan artisan pistol is just so strong... The only thing I dont like about the archer is how shield bashes don't cancel his attack. When I bash an archer, he should be stunned long enough for at least my shield to be blocking damage again.

    KNUDA.knatch, no this was something I had in mind for some time now. Sure it was me, pvkii community aint that large :)


    i'm not sure if it is an intended feature or not, but whenever yo uhave a ranged weapon out, you don't get stunned. shield bashing a captain weilding a blunderbuss doesn't stun him, same with ss pistol and skirmy pistol, and archer bows. you can also bypbass keg stuns using this trick as well. it doesn't make much sense to me and i think it should be fixed...getting bashed by a shield allows you to still shoot an arrow...or throw a an axe...fire the pistol...ridiculous. add stun to ranged weapons.
  • VeryCoolCatVeryCoolCat Senior
    edited September 2013
    I play every class fairly damn well, I've played against extremely good people, I've played against horde of dinahs. Each class has a strategy and variations of that strategy depending on the player.

    Two great skilled players switched off between archer and beserker... the beserker will usually win regardless of player. If you are complaining a class is OP, its not that, its that a player good at that class keeps joining choosing that class.

    If the game is low skill players heavy knight is brutal.
    If the game is high skill players, the heavy knight is actually the worst class.

    And anyone here whose played against me, knows I know what I'm talking about.
  • ThatOneBoxThatOneBox Senior
    edited 4:21PM
    Boxxu1337 wrote:

    i'm not sure if it is an intended feature or not, but whenever yo uhave a ranged weapon out, you don't get stunned. shield bashing a captain weilding a blunderbuss doesn't stun him, same with ss pistol and skirmy pistol, and archer bows. you can also bypbass keg stuns using this trick as well. it doesn't make much sense to me and i think it should be fixed...getting bashed by a shield allows you to still shoot an arrow...or throw a an axe...fire the pistol...ridiculous. add stun to ranged weapons.


    can i get a developers response on this please?
  • DenshinDenshin Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited 4:21PM

    If the game is low skill players heavy knight is brutal.
    If the game is high skill players, the heavy knight is actually the worst class.


    There are no worst or best classes, they're entirely situational.

    Boxxu1337 wrote:

    can i get a developers response on this please?


    You don't get stunned when you wield a ranged weapon because ranged weapons does not have a first or third person stun animation with it. Should be looked into, I'm all for.

    QUOTE (Trojan•Clinique @ Nov 8 2011, 08:06 PM)
    Denshin is a rather overpowered class.

    QUOTE (Lucas =) @ Jan 12 2012, 08:16 AM)
    We're currently working on making Denshin less OP.
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  • simiussimius Senior
    edited 4:21PM
    There are different odds for a certain situation to occur though. With that angle you could argue that certain classes are overall more likely to be more usefull than others :icon_jacksp: whatever
    You do get stunned with a ranged weapon, don't you? However you are still able to shoot. But I don't think the devs just forgot about that meaning the reason why you're still able to shoot when bashed is not because there are no animations for it but the other way around. You can still shoot so there are no stun animations.
  • TurdsackTurdsack Senior
    edited September 2013
    (Ignore post)
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  • TurdsackTurdsack Senior
    edited 4:21PM

    If the game is low skill players heavy knight is brutal.
    If the game is high skill players, the heavy knight is actually the worst class.
    And anyone here whose played against me, knows I know what I'm talking about.

    Lolwut? I played HK against you and didn't do too bad.
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  • BotkulBotkul Senior
    edited 4:21PM
    If you dont like ranged then play on different maps. Problem solved
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  • SpirrwellSpirrwell That Guy Authorized Creator
    edited 4:21PM
    I getting tired of the mentality that simply playing on a different map changes the way each class operates. Playing on other maps gives you a chance to try and learn new things that are helpful in situations in those maps, however I don't need to go to a cardboard box sized map simply to beat a ranged class. By that I mean it would be most effective fighting a ranged class in a non-open area, however it shouldn't stop me from being able to fight them well in other maps as well with a decently open area..

    I'm not going to get into an argument, I think ranged classes are fine because classes have their way to defend against them, speed, shields, endurance, and etc.
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