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In this Discussion
Balance + Possible Melee combat improvements
Margato
Senior, senior
To be honest, the game feels like a spam fest with melee sometimes.
I was thinking of these features that would be good in-game:
-When charging up a attack (this also includes projectiles and the bow) and it hasn't reached the full charge limit (with the sparkles) and if you get hit I think your attack should be cancelled. But if it reaches the full charge limit it cannot be cancelled.
-When readying a projectile (even with bow) No matter where you are at during charge, and if you get hit your drawback should be instantly cancelled.
- As a archer your crossbow should be removed from aiming mode if you are in aiming mode when you get hit
Why these? Because I think it would make the combat a lot more enjoyable. It would add a lot more timing then swing and praying that it'd hit something. Also, it's just so freakin' annoying when your chasing a archer and you constantly hit him and he keeps firing his bow at you, I mean like, Shouldn't he be using his butterknife instead? 0_o
Balance features:
-Chaseboost: if you get close enough to a enemy and your looking at him with the crosshair on him you get a speed boost to catch up to him if he runs away. You have to keep your crosshair on him to catch up to him when hes running. This cannot be done with a ranged weapon pulled out, you have to have melee in your hands. This also can't happen if you have an attack ready. But remember, you have to be pretty darn close for this to be activated and theres a radius around the player aswell that you are chasing if you leave the radius your chaseboost is cancelled.
^ Why?: Because I think this would add a lot more balance. It's just plan annoying when your chasing a class thats faster than you and you can't catch up to them.. But this has many downs as well, like you have to follow them exactly with your crosshair on them and not having an attack ready and to actually start it you have to be close to them and then the chasing activates.
I was thinking of these features that would be good in-game:
-When charging up a attack (this also includes projectiles and the bow) and it hasn't reached the full charge limit (with the sparkles) and if you get hit I think your attack should be cancelled. But if it reaches the full charge limit it cannot be cancelled.
-When readying a projectile (even with bow) No matter where you are at during charge, and if you get hit your drawback should be instantly cancelled.
- As a archer your crossbow should be removed from aiming mode if you are in aiming mode when you get hit
Why these? Because I think it would make the combat a lot more enjoyable. It would add a lot more timing then swing and praying that it'd hit something. Also, it's just so freakin' annoying when your chasing a archer and you constantly hit him and he keeps firing his bow at you, I mean like, Shouldn't he be using his butterknife instead? 0_o
Balance features:
-Chaseboost: if you get close enough to a enemy and your looking at him with the crosshair on him you get a speed boost to catch up to him if he runs away. You have to keep your crosshair on him to catch up to him when hes running. This cannot be done with a ranged weapon pulled out, you have to have melee in your hands. This also can't happen if you have an attack ready. But remember, you have to be pretty darn close for this to be activated and theres a radius around the player aswell that you are chasing if you leave the radius your chaseboost is cancelled.
^ Why?: Because I think this would add a lot more balance. It's just plan annoying when your chasing a class thats faster than you and you can't catch up to them.. But this has many downs as well, like you have to follow them exactly with your crosshair on them and not having an attack ready and to actually start it you have to be close to them and then the chasing activates.
Others have to change my signature for me 
Comments
Anyways, I've got some feedback on these ideas. Keep in mind this is always just my personal opinion and not representative of the team's consensus in any way.
Let's just think about what these changes you'd like to see implemented would do to balance. Melee swings being cancelled if you get hit during charging your swing? This would essentially put the final nail in the coffin for Heavy Knights in a fight against Skirmishers. The Heavy Knight would simply not be able to get an attack ready before the Skirmisher and would have to rely entirely on perfect parrying the Skirmisher. This seems like a far from ideal scenario to me. Weapons like the Berserkers sword and axe or the Sharpshooters dagger would easily put enemies into lock down. They simply could not attack anymore and must rely on perfect parrying. As it is, people already loathe the perfect parry system and hate getting pp'd, but making this the only way to fight anymore just does not seem wise to me.
The attack charge of ranged classes getting canceled by attacks. This seems more reasonable to me, however this change seems to mostly if not solely be directed at the Archer. Since the Sharpshooter does not actually charge his ranged weapons, this change would not affect him.
So, what would this change do? Well what happens currently when chasing a competent archer, is that he will shoot you with his crossbow, will most likely hit you with it, push you back and get enough time to ready his special. The crossbow does make sure the archer can get his special rather quickly and this scenario assumes that he has shot at least one enemy with a fully charged longbow attack, which is also not unlikely. He then has a chance of killing most enemies outright with his special.
With your suggestion, what would happen is that the Archer would be forced to hip fire the crossbow and possibly miss with it. If he then takes out his longbow and plans on charging his attacks, his opponent could use quick, uncharged swings to cancel his longbow attacks. This effectively forces the Archer to use his short sword. This is a strong weapon, in the hands of a skilled Archer, but the average player will find themselves very quickly taken down by any competent enemy.
In this case, a fight of an Archer with a Sharpshooter can also have a very different outcome than it does currently. A competent Archer has a good chance of beating an equally skilled Sharpshooter. With your change, the Sharpshooter would gain an advantage. His pistol is a fairly accurate and fast firing weapon. His rifle a perfectly accurate and easy to hit with weapon. You can imagine where I am going with this, the Sharpshooter could deny the Archer the use of his longbow, forcing him to go into melee combat. This puts the Archer at a severe disadvantage.
The chase boost idea is something that I can't help but notice is something that was done in Chivalry and is most likely where you got the idea from. I am actually completely opposed to this making its way into PVKII. It somewhat works in Chivalry, but is frustrating and unintuitive. At least for the guy getting chased.
What would this do to the balance in PVKII? Well, Skirmishers and Berserkers would have an even easier time engaging enemies and keeping them on their toes. This may also confuse new players who do not realize they gain speed by looking at opponents, which can throw them off balance and be frustrating, as it is not a very intuitive system. Also, this would further push the pace of battle, which already gets quite hectic and chaotic at times, as we know.
The only way I could see this working would be if we have a chase boost against ranged classes who actually have a ranged weapon out. But again, this will put ranged classes at a disadvantage. The Berserker versus Archer already favours the Berserker, giving them a chaseboost against Archers would further increase the threat the Archers face from Berserkers.
On the other hand I myself agree that dealing with ranged classes is a big issue and needs to be worked on, as fighting a competent Archer is one of the most frustrating scenarios to find oneself in.
So all in all, these aren't terrible suggestions, but I can't see them, in their current form at least, being beneficial to the combat system.
Thank you for responding to this in the correct way. I mostly just want ranged attacks to be cancelled when you get hit because it's so stupid seeing someone throwing stuff at you as you stab them with your sword 3 times. But I can see how my other idea with the melee could work out against a Skirmisher and knight. The knight could just parry the attack and do the counterattack, or make it so one handed weapons can't cancel attacks. Also, yes I got the chase boost idea from Chivalry. It just kinda makes me sick inside seeing a skirmisher run away from me when hes at Pushing up daisies and going faster than me
sure whatever d00d.
i think none of his ideas would work because none of it balanced at all, it would create way too much stun-locking. anything that isn't a 1v1 would be impossible to get a swing in. as for the archers, i agree they need some kind of nerf, but i don't think this would be a good way to do it.
if you really want to cancel someones attack, use a shield bash, that works just fine.
I kinda like his first suggestion :
This could be interesting in the way of getting rid of the damage trading all the time which is disturbing me personally alot.
But I think the Knight would have big problems since he charges very slow compared to other classes. A skirmisher could interrupt him very easily. Nevertheless, this encourages fast classes to be even more aggressive and slower classes to play defensive moreoften.
But if 1handed weapons may not interrupt 2handed weapons then everything is different again. I am not sure which is best for pvk, I mean, not sure if this works well in pvk. I may forgot something.
And yes, ranged classes are a bit annoying at the moment. They are not too difficult to play, especially the archer. Few things like slowing his speed while walking backwards and decreasing the time it needs to change the weapon between bow and crossbow will help alot aswell. Maybe also decreasing the pushback with the crossbow, dunno.
But this is offtopic. ;p
would be interesting changes
The stare battles as they are can already be frustrating to new players who don't understand the importance of staying out of the range of their opponent's weapons. This might make it worse.
This may will happen, but what also can happen is that the players are trying to force each other to hit or parry. Quite hard to explain it to me in English, but I will try it with an example:
A Huscarl and Heavy Knight are fighting, by charging an attack, the opponent would be forced to either do a quick slash to interrupt him, getting out of reach to charge his own attack (most likely) or just parry.
In the first case the one who is charging would be forced to either switch to block or to get out of reach.
The thing with staring and getting out of reach would be a problem since this could go endless, unless you alter the speed while charging an attack (for example short boost while forward attack) but I doubt this is a good idea.
Well and the third thing which is parrying is obv. I think, no explanation needed.
You sure can disagree, just explain why. Makes you look less like a troll.
Also Sharpieman, you could have just edited your post instead of posting three times in a row, just makes it easier to read in my opinion.