Manual block

DMXDMX Senior
edited 11:13PM in PVKII Discussion
Poll says all. I'm very well aware of the gameplay mechanics and the server owner's abillity to make it manual parry only but we all know that is very limited.

- Apache
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«13

Comments

  • ExedolExedol Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    Autoparry is a system designed to make the game easier ergo dinahs will get the hang of it easier without being raped by "Parrywhores" which is a silly term in my opinion.
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    Aren't there manual parry only server(s)? Go to those...

    If they aren't popular, I wonder what the reason is >_> <_< >_> <_<

    People who hate auto parry are unable to fully charge their weapon/shield bash/ranged/change direction swing on faster weapons

    Not many people who play this game go to the forums either, so those "dinahs" have no representation

    Something something gestir slaps manual parry in the face

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  • DMXDMX Senior
    edited March 2012
    Like i already stated in my main post, I'm aware that there are manual parry only servers and I go to these aswell. So is exedol, I'm pretty sure. There are simply not enough manual parry only servers and as far as I know only LTS servers. Obviously not everyone plays the way they should and saying that they would either have to fully charge or backaway when it might be the only moment where they can take a quick hit in is just stupid. Even though it's in the pvkii discussion section, doesn't mean I was going to have a right-on discussion with anyone about this matter, it's just a poll.

    There are plenty of ways to fix the gestir & manual block problem, saying that is the only thing wrong about the Gestir would be a joke aswell.
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  • ExedolExedol Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    Aren't there manual parry only server(s)? Go to those...

    If they aren't popular, I wonder what the reason is >_> <_< >_> <_<

    People who hate auto parry are unable to fully charge their weapon/shield bash/ranged/change direction swing on faster weapons

    Not many people who play this game go to the forums either, so those "dinahs" have no representation

    Something something gestir slaps manual parry in the face


    Yes, the Gestir does slap manual parry in in the face but a solution has been in the game for who knows how long? with this simple solution even gestirs could be autoparried with little to no effort at all... http://cdn.steampowered.com/v/gfx/apps/17570/ss_97dacac9f963e3a86fb5e01e225cdba1055b12b9.1920x1080.jpg?t=1282834304
    Take a close look whose attack direction it shows? This icon appears only when you are on autoparry.. not on manual.. let's not forget it's completely useless on auto.. but would be rather effective on manual?
    This game used to be so much more fun back in the day, now I just feel mindless going around and killing dinahies..
    raising KDR? calling myself good because high kill ratio? just so fcking silly.. I see these retards I really don't have anything to say to them because that's just so goddamn pathetic..
  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited March 2012
    If it showed you the direction you have to block (as Exedol suggests) it totally ruins any need for observation at this game at all, which means that forcing manual parry actually makes no difference other than ruining the smoothness of movement. The point of the direction indicator with auto is that you can tell which player it is trying to parry (by looking at this and the people around you). That's where players who are experienced and understand the directional combat system come out ahead, as they can actually interpret what is going on in situations.


    About the most balanced combat I've experienced in this game was on Pretty Pink Princess' server. I find that manual parry + full charges breaking parry is a lot better than, say, 2.2 was. But I like my autoparry so I don't have to deviate from my flight paths. So I guess my position is that it should be up to the server owners as it is right now.


    I would also like to comment that a lot of people I see either claiming that they use manual parry or slandering others for using autoparry flatter their own skill level too much.
  • Ninja-ORCNinja-ORC Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    I could undertsand it being a problem if only a few people got auto parry, but everyone can use it. People talk alot of shirley to auto parry users(who says there not usingit too?!) :icon_knight3: but if its such problem why dont they just use it too? It doesn't bother me you just learn ways around it. At the same time they could change it back some people might be really happy about that, I wouldn't mind. I just don't think its a big game breaker like alot of the other players do. If someone keeps parrying, charge attack them. After awhile they will open up their defense to get some hits back in then you strike. Now maybe if there was an advantage to the manual parry over the auto then maybe it would be used more but from what I see the majority of players use auto and even the auto parry haterz use it(not all of them but most of them)
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  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    Ninja-ORC wrote:

    and even the auto parry haterz use it(not all of them but most of them)



    Yeah, what really gets me is people going "OHHHHH AUTOPARRIER WHAT A dinah" when it's obvious they aren't even using manual parry
  • ExedolExedol Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    If it showed you the direction you have to block (as Exedol suggests) it totally ruins any need for observation at this game at all, which means that forcing manual parry actually makes no difference other than ruining the smoothness of movement. The point of the direction indicator with auto is that you can tell which player it is trying to parry (by looking at this and the people around you). That's where players who are experienced and understand the directional combat system come out ahead, as they can actually interpret what is going on in situations.

    I wholeheartedly agree, it would ruin the need for observation. A mere suggestion to be frank but completely made with Gestir in my mind so its not completely valid. That leaves us with Gestir problem for manual parrying. His arm movements are incredibly hard to catch... but why would you even need attack directions for him?
    I honestly do feel like entire autoparry was a solution to Gestir, but I'm just imagining things.

    I would also like to comment that a lot of people I see either claiming that they use manual parry or slandering others for using autoparry flatter their own skill level too much.

    I have seen these people.. they are really pathetic. I don't ever remember a time where I called others bad for using autoparry when I was on manual..
  • LucasLucas Walter White Members
    edited 11:13PM
    People play as they please, and I have nothing against that.
    Never used autoparrying myself.
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  • Pache94Pache94 Donald Thumb Beta Tester
    edited 11:13PM
    Im with auto parry tho because the whole point of it is to make the new people come in and be able to at least have a chance against all them old pvkii players instead of quiting on the first time, plus something like this could make the pvkii community grow bigger.
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  • DMXDMX Senior
    edited March 2012
    Everyone's different. It's very easy to just fully charge people and all&that but in reality nobody would wait in certain situations for a full charge if you run out of time. The thing about the combat system now is that it's very limited. You need your quick hits whenever you can. Reason simply is because the current mechanics allow every combatant to not get away with anything unless you try to make someone miss. Its always either a full charge, you make them miss, you both get hit. There's no longer '' I am faster and can hit you and jump away on the same time withouth getting hit against fairly decent players' unless you're skirmisher. As example the berserker would have a small speed advantage of being able to hit a HK while the HK tries to jump out of reach. Those kind of moments you can always garantee that you're playing around 50/50 of not knowing what happends next. You can't always rely on full charge, not to mention being aggresive ussually means you put yourself in a disadvantage nowadays. I don't mind automatic block much but I do believe in a combo with HK's counter-attack which also seems to be a lil imba and too fast, Is just a bad idea. I like small communities more to be honest, I like playing with people who I don't know but seen before sometime. I wouldn't like to join in a server on PVKII someday and know nobody at all. Though I support the developers on making the game easier, I do think the Orange Box alone with the air acceralation already did that in many ways. It's very easy to compare to 2.2 where gameplay was just really smooth, you had no issues with rates, no big hitboxes and the whole gameplay just seemed to be much more skillfull. You had several techniques to outsmart people, you could jump over people's heads and get away with it because of your proper timing, you could dodge counter-attacks by climbing over people's swings, heads ( You try that with these OB shirley hitboxes, I dare you ) You could jump backwards to avoid getting hit by counter-attacks. You could jump into someone and on same time time your jumping away. Blunderbuss hit registration was much better. Archer's longbow was much harder to shoot. Archer's crossbow was much harder to shoot. Rates, being able to double-reach special people when both persons are on 20 ping on 2.4. The fact that entire rates can bring you into such a disadvantage like I've seen myself, is something I really dispise of this game. Makes duelling in combo with the current gameplay mechanics completly useless, 1v1 situations. People who have over 70 + ping and who are decent players immediatly have an advantage. They also seem to give you instant Gestir pushbacks as HK with their lag. Hit registration is a joke now. Bad frame rates, '' Teamwork '' What's teamwork needed for if you can just exploit with a chest in your own spawnzone because it requires the devs to take atleast one year + to upload a silly patchfix. Oh, It's going to be called 2.5, 3.0! This is madness!
    Right on, you're making a game for people who already give up in the slightest bit, who ragequit because they suck in a completly tweaked down game that has been made for 10 years old with no brains whatsoever just so they can have an easy staying for the amount of 30 hours they stay on the game anyways. All i'm trying to say is that it's not just the autoblock that made it easier for the beginners. It's everything since 2.3.

    It was just a poll anyways, I've also read something about damage-trading on the tweet not so long ago. Sounds interesting.
    - Apache
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  • Khaotic'Khaotic' Dinah #1 Senior
    edited 11:13PM

    People who hate auto parry are unable to fully charge their weapon/shield bash/ranged/change direction swing on faster weapons

    No, people hates it because it removes a large part of the skill cap that this game had. Auto parry is good for the dinahs and makes them not rage quit too quickly, but i still think its a joke. It is something you should be able to use when you are a beginner, but move forward to manual parry when a little more experienced.
  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    Khaotic wrote:

    No, people hates it because it removes a large part of the skill cap that this game had. Auto parry is good for the dinahs and makes them not rage quit too quickly, but i still think its a joke. It is something you should be able to use when you are a beginner, but move forward to manual parry when a little more experienced.


    On the contrary, I believe that autoparry allows for a higher-level of play. Frankly, it only takes a handful of hours to figure out how the combat system work. There are 4 directions, not 75.

    Manual parry limits the movement in combat, making it more predictable and less fluid. Well, not entirely true as you can parry in midair without steering yourself, but jumping nonstop looks more awkward than anything else; that removes the grace from combat.

    Autoparry allows for more creativity; a fight between two good players becomes more about outsmarting and outmaneuvering your opponent, rather than simply out-timing him. You only have to jump when it gives you an advantage, instead of to avoid a disadvantage.
    I hope that makes sense, and I don't necessarily expect that anybody will agree with me, but it's my position.
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited March 2012
    Khaotic wrote:

    No, people hates it because it removes a large part of the skill cap that this game had. Auto parry is good for the dinahs and makes them not rage quit too quickly, but i still think its a joke. It is something you should be able to use when you are a beginner, but move forward to manual parry when a little more experienced.


    The game is difficult enough for beginners, why make it worse? These sound like personal problems to me.

    And yes, that is the reason. They are upset that someone can perfect parry them so they can't spam left click over and over. Skliled players know how to break through parry spamming. I told you the secrets to it, so make me proud son.

    apache wrote:

    simply not enough manual parry only servers


    Is it because theres not enough people on them? Why would you need more if that is the case? Because you want popular servers to HAVE to use it? lol...

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  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    Apache, most of those problems can be attributed to server owners not properly adapting their netcode for the game engine. Also blunderbuss was nerfed like mad for 2.3, that's why it seems so much less effective.

    I do miss the thing where you could get parried and go flying backwards.

    I also miss the steerable skirmisher special, but as it was my fault they fixed that I won't go there :icon_whistling:
  • ExedolExedol Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    I'm going to be very honest in this post.
    PVKII used to be a game with much potential, it was fun back in the days.. really fun.. I loved it but now its just a shell of what it was and sure I loved the manual parry yeah I did. It required a good sense of timing, reflex and skills..
    Now I just run around randomly, doing one move that dinahs can't possibly predict.. I bluff him into striking first when I fall back and hit him.. and I do this all the time.. and win..
    So now I'm just going to state my opinion very bluntly..
    It's not worth hosting a server over this piece of crap anymore where updates are almost never released.. It's a waste of money and bandwidth.

    So very bluntly now...
    Developers, you killed this game.
  • Goodguy3Goodguy3 Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    lol
    QUOTE (Damnstraight @ February 17 2009, 08:08 PM)
    Suck up less, or at least make it less obvious.


    QUOTE (dinahCannon @ Feb 18 2010, 10:08 AM)
    If that's realistic, I'm Jesus.
  • Khaotic'Khaotic' Dinah #1 Senior
    edited 11:13PM

    And yes, that is the reason. They are upset that someone can perfect parry them so they can't spam left click over and over. Skliled players know how to break through parry spamming. I told you the secrets to it, so make me proud son.

    No it is not the reason for some decent/skilled players.


    On the contrary, I believe that autoparry allows for a higher-level of play. Frankly, it only takes a handful of hours to figure out how the combat system work. There are 4 directions, not 75.

    Manual parry limits the movement in combat, making it more predictable and less fluid. Well, not entirely true as you can parry in midair without steering yourself, but jumping nonstop looks more awkward than anything else; that removes the grace from combat.

    Autoparry allows for more creativity; a fight between two good players becomes more about outsmarting and outmaneuvering your opponent, rather than simply out-timing him. You only have to jump when it gives you an advantage, instead of to avoid a disadvantage.
    I hope that makes sense, and I don't necessarily expect that anybody will agree with me, but it's my position.


    Compared to auto parry, you don't have any direction since it doesn't matter. With manual parry you actually had to see what direction he attacked in, and react fast to it.
    So by outsmarting and outmaneuvering your opponent, you mean that they should both stand and wait till one of them attacks, like every single person does now a days? For sure is a lot more creativity here, and besides timing and knowing when to do what is a big part of being skilled in most games, just not in this one.
    And it doesnt limit the combat speed, if you had actually played for a longer time, i think you would have realised that a skillful parrier, did not need to slow down the combat speed to parry.


    Exedol wrote:

    I'm going to be very honest in this post.
    PVKII used to be a game with much potential, it was fun back in the days.. really fun.. I loved it but now its just a shell of what it was and sure I loved the manual parry yeah I did. It required a good sense of timing, reflex and skills..
    Now I just run around randomly, doing one move that dinahs can't possibly predict.. I bluff him into striking first when I fall back and hit him.. and I do this all the time.. and win..

    I agree, so so much, sadly.
  • Ninja-ORCNinja-ORC Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    Exedol wrote:

    Now I just run around randomly, doing one move that dinahs can't possibly predict.. I bluff him into striking first when I fall back and hit him.. and I do this all the time.. and win..


    That does work on the average player unfortunately, but not everyone falls into that category.

    Besides that we can poke things about pvkii all day. Nothings ever perfect and im happy that we have a fun melee game out there for source thats FREE. Who knows maybe when this new patch comes out they'll balance a few things here and there. No reason to stress this stuff, cause life is to fridgeing short
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  • KazvallKazvall Members
    edited 11:13PM
    There is only one direction you should be deploying your shield, and that's in front of you. You know, which covers all four directions of FRONTAL attacks. Manual block is the stupidest thing I've heard of. :icon_stabhead:
  • ExedolExedol Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    That does work on the average player unfortunately, but not everyone falls into that category.

    Besides that we can poke things about pvkii all day. Nothings ever perfect and im happy that we have a fun melee game out there for source thats FREE. Who knows maybe when this new patch comes out they'll balance a few things here and there. No reason to stress this stuff, cause life is to fridgeing short

    I would be saying PVKII's life is too short.
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited March 2012
    Exedol wrote:

    Developers, you killed this game.


    Yet people still play including you (and me) because you enjoy the game and know updates will come

    Hyperboling isn't cool anymore :|

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  • DenshinDenshin Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited 11:13PM
    I get the vibes there exists folks around here that are willing to be pushing up the daisies and jump off a cliff for this mod.

    QUOTE (Trojan•Clinique @ Nov 8 2011, 08:06 PM)
    Denshin is a rather overpowered class.

    QUOTE (Lucas =) @ Jan 12 2012, 08:16 AM)
    We're currently working on making Denshin less OP.
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  • fredman555fredman555 Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    Fortunately for me, the manual block and attack is what really drew me to this game and i probably wouldnt have kept playing it if there was an auto block fuction.

    i remember the huge outcry of autoblock being implemented when it was first released. i also remember saying how in a year too many people would be familiar to autoparry to go back to the obviously better manual parry; why learn how to do the same thing, only harder? while there should be something done for the dinahs, something should be done about the simple tapping of the right mouse button. In any case, the gestirs involvement in the autoparry formula is the exception, not the standard. im sure there are ways to make his moves move obvious.
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  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited March 2012
    Khaotic wrote:

    Compared to auto parry, you don't have any direction since it doesn't matter. With manual parry you actually had to see what direction he attacked in, and react fast to it.
    So by outsmarting and outmaneuvering your opponent, you mean that they should both stand and wait till one of them attacks, like every single person does now a days? For sure is a lot more creativity here, and besides timing and knowing when to do what is a big part of being skilled in most games, just not in this one.
    And it doesnt limit the combat speed, if you had actually played for a longer time, i think you would have realised that a skillful parrier, did not need to slow down the combat speed to parry.



    I've been playing since 2.1, so don't give me that. Frankly, unless you have the reflexes of an elderly sloth nothing you've said applies. You'll also note I didn't say manual parry slowed down combat, I said it disrupts the smoothness of it.

    On top of that, losing reactionary whiners doesn't hurt the game community at all.
  • DMXDMX Senior
    edited March 2012

    Yet people still play including you (and me) because you enjoy the game and know updates will come


    'Enjoy'

    It's a lesser version of what it used to be. You might have given us Gestir, a map or two but it's not going to make up for what the gameplay is now. It's the most boring thing ever. ' 2.2 was a staring competition' Bitch, please. I'm not going to fall for the whole 'developers do this in free time thing' because that doesnt make up the fact that they know nothing about how their own game works outside their ' beta-testing server ' There has been made more shaders for clothes, Excellent! Is there anything being done about the fps issues that might occur to alot of your players? It's only going to get laggier and worse by every update. But no worry, you can have another two - three years of playing before the next big step to fps fridgeing will occur. If you haven't noticed, I can't really appreciate your 'OB'. Enjoy your game of trinket wars lads.

    - Apache
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  • ExedolExedol Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    So, Kong.. you think smoothness goes down? Manual parry isn't smooth? What the...
    Ok, so let me get this straight.. you want PVK to be a relaxing game so you can sip on a cup of tea while playing it?
    I played the early versions.. namely 1.0-1.1 and I thought the game was funny back then? Back then there was no directions, really... I honestly would rather play that version than current one because its all the same..it has no directions, but does current pvk even need them? It's not like the dinahs pay attention to them.. And I'm guessing that dinahs is the majority of players on pvk.
  • LucasLucas Walter White Members
    edited 11:13PM
    We never asked you to either come here and rant or play the game. Due to so many requests it's impossible to tell how you want the combat to change, but we did our best. There are 2 things missing from release, I think you can quite consider it as done...
    It has taken an extremely long time to get all this up and running, but the update is huge I tell you.
    The shadow effects aren't obligatory, there's a way to turn them off.
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  • DMXDMX Senior
    edited March 2012

    Is it because theres not enough people on them?


    You would know this if you didn't just only play on SBP. Btw, I heard you're a fine admin there aswell,

    Grins wrote:

    I was playing pvk_flaot on SBP because koko changed the map without a vote, and i was just running around killing people because the territory part of the map bores me. So koko decides to ban me, for no reason. i wasn't breaking any rules whatsoever, and when i tried to ask him why i was banned he blocked me on steam. real mature, eh? can soemone explain to me what i did wrong?


    anyways, back to the discussion.

    Lucas wrote:

    We never asked you to either come here and rant


    Then what would the discussion section be good for?
    Anyways, I made my point. I appreciate the reply, though I don't think they hired beta-testers as backup on the Forums.
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  • kaffekaffe Senior
    edited 11:13PM
    You guys, the problem is not auto parry. The real problem is that food cant auto parry, just think about how awesome it would be if the rooster could block your mouth when trying to eat it? i for one would think it was amazing.
    Another problem is that there is only one type of food, you could implement ice cream and salad and stuff, all of which can auto parry.
    Then you guys could add some beverages so it would be easier swallowing all the food (drinking a beverage should give a buff so food cant auto parry you, only manual parry).

    so what do you gusy think of my ideas?
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