Please unban me

He-ManHe-Man Senior
edited 12:44PM in Official Servers
1)STEAM_0:0:3518669
2)He-Man
3)Saturday, May 24, 2008 at approximately 11:30 AM
4)Uber Dinah
5)pvk_fort
6)Official Server #3
7)He said using counter attack after a perfect parry is "abusing" because you can't block it....
8)Okay, this is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's so dumb I'm not entirely sure it's the reason he banned me; maybe I owned his ass too many times before and he got pissed at fighting me. But here's the deal, he bans me for using the counter attack, which was purposely implemented into the game, because you can't block it. First of all, you should never be in a situation where you CAN block it unless you are using an exploit yourself. In fact he was using the old "Jump back when getting perfect parried so they can't hit you" trick which he claims is "just part of the game." Thing is, if you do that, the ONLY way you can get hit after you were perfect parried is by a carefully timed counter-attack. Now I don't consider either tricks exploits, but if you call counter-attack an exploit, then you have to call the jump back trick an exploit too. Now, not only am I using this post as a ban appeal, but I would like to have Uber Dinah banned for admin abuse. Up to you guys... Amerika, I hope you're there smile.gif
«13

Comments

  • BladeBlade PVKII Team
    edited May 2008
    QUOTE (He-Man @ May 24 2008, 08:07 PM) »
    8)Okay, this is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's so dumb I'm not entirely sure it's the reason he banned me; maybe I owned his ass too many times before and he got pissed at fighting me.
    You mean, me killing you 5 times(180 ping), and you killing me one time?

    But here's the deal, he bans me for using the counter attack, which was purposely implemented into the game, because you can't block it
    As someone who lead the tests, i dont recall the counter attack was meant to go through block.

    First of all, you should never be in a situation where you CAN block it unless you are using an exploit yourself.
    Another player can block it or you can jump away and block it at its end.

    in fact he was using the old "Jump back when getting perfect parried so they can't hit you" trick which he claims is "just part of the game." Thing is, if you do that, the ONLY way you can get hit after you were perfect parried is by a carefully timed counter-attack.
    You mean, exploiting, in other words.

    Now I don't consider either tricks exploits, but if you call counter-attack an exploit, then you have to call the jump back trick an exploit too.
    There is a reason why jump back is still here since 1.0, and why the counter attack exploit is fixed for 2.1.

    Now, not only am I using this post as a ban appeal, but I would like to have Uber Dinah banned for admin abuse. Up to you guys... Amerika, I hope you're there smile.gif
    I hope so too.


    As said, jumping after getting perfect blocked isnt easy to do(Against a decent enemy that know how to move), and it sometimes even involve in little luck, not to mention it doesnt work in all areas. its the way you deal with block whores, such as yourself. (people who can only block.) it was with us since 1.0 and still is, and is going to stay for 2.1. All you have to do in this case is to hit "jump".
    What you did is an exploit, as the counter attacks dont go through block, unless you make them do so using a bug. (the animation of that is also buggy.)
  • He-ManHe-Man Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    .....................

    The jump back trick is completely bullshit if you can't counter attack it. It's easy as hell to do and you can do it every goddamn time. You wanna know how to deal with a blockwhore like YOU? As huscarl you either A. feign swing your "fast as hell" axe for a hit, or shield bash switch perfect parry counter. As knight, there is absolutely nothing you can do against a viking blockwhore except wait for him to attack you, so you can counter. The sword is too slow for feigning, and he switches weapons too slow for shield bash trick to work effectively. Now, you're trying to tell me that when you DO come out of your little blocking shell to try and hit me when I'm being double teamed along with your horseshit "where the hell are you" ping and I perfect parry you, that I can't use counter attack to hit you? If you are going to make it so counter attack can get blocked, then you better hells fix that jump back bullshit, otherwise the only people that will ever get hit in melee are the ones who don't know about the trick. Anywho, they should probly scrap you as lead tester and put me in, seeing is I probly play this game more than you do (which I'm not saying is a good thing). Now where is Amerika so he can unban me.
  • ParaSwarmParaSwarm PVKII Team, Applicant
    edited 12:44PM
    Counter-attack exploit? How is countering an exploit? It's in the player guide. Counter-attack has always gone through block. Wow.
  • eggzoreggzor Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    The counter attack that Blade is talking about is not just simply do a attack right after you perfect parry someone.

    The one that you, He-Man, has been seen using involves a few more moves after doing the perfect parry, which will create an attack that has a weird animation for it, which goes thru any direction of block.

    Whether it was made by mistake or on purpose i cannot say since i wasent there when this happend.
    image
  • FergFerg Senior
    edited May 2008
    This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Counterattack goes through blocks without fail. This is no exploit. If it was unintentionally implemented that way it is not the fault of the player who uses counter attack. One needn't do anything special to make the counterattack go through blocks, so it is no exploit. Any admin who will ban a player for using a basic mechanic of the game doesn't deserve to be the admin of an official server.
  • BladeBlade PVKII Team
    edited May 2008
    QUOTE (Ferg @ May 24 2008, 10:31 PM) »
    This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Counterattack goes through blocks without fail. This is no exploit. If it was unintentionally implemented that way it is not the fault of the player who uses counter attack. One needn't do anything special to make the counterattack go through blocks, so it is no exploit. Any admin who will ban a player for using a basic mechanic of the game doesn't deserve to be the admin of an official server.


    If a player blocks a counter attack, then it wont hit through his block.
    There is an exploit that make it so that the counter attack will ignore the block.

    You are either stupid, trying to protect your friend, or both.


    QUOTE (ParaSwarm @ May 24 2008, 09:45 PM) »
    Counter-attack exploit? How is countering an exploit? It's in the player guide. Counter-attack has always gone through block. Wow.



    For the paraswarm guy- i dont see in the player guide where it says counter attack goes through block of the enemy. - pleaes enlighten me.


    Keep the attitude guys.
  • ParaSwarmParaSwarm PVKII Team, Applicant
    edited 12:44PM
    QUOTE (Blade @ May 24 2008, 02:38 PM) »
    If a player blocks a counter attack, then it wont hit through his block.
    There is an exploit that make it so that the counter attack will ignore the block.

    You are either stupid, trying to protect your friend, or both.
    For the paraswarm guy- i dont see in the player guide where it says counter attack goes through block of the enemy. - pleaes enlighten me.
    Keep the attitude guys.


    Wow, Blade. You are seriously misinformed as a "lead tester".

    Counter-attack is a function. You must think it means attacking directly after a perfect parry. It's a bit more than that. After perfect parrying, you have around 4 seconds to do it. You hold block, and while holding, you click the attack button. It does a quick strike and goes through block.

    The same with shield bashing, and then holding block and pressing the attack button. You do a quick strike that goes through block.

    Let's have a dev team member come and clarify this, please.

    Also, stop acting like a badass. Thanks.
  • FergFerg Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    QUOTE (Blade @ May 24 2008, 12:38 PM) »
    If a player blocks a counter attack, then it wont hit through his block.
    There is an exploit that make it so that the counter attack will ignore the block.

    You are either stupid, trying to protect you friend, or both.
    For the paraswarm guy- i dont see in the player guide where it says counter attack goes through block of the enemy. - pleaes enlighten me.
    Keep the attitude guys.

    I have never had a situation in which a player was able to block my counterattack. That isn't me being stupid, that is just plain fact. I have "carefully timed" my counters as well. The animation is not odd, it is the normal counter-attack animation. You are suggesting that being able to bounce back after attacking is a logical and valid aspect of the game, yet that one should not be able to time one's counter? That is what sounds stupid to me.

    More importantly, I find it absurd that you would ban someone for an "offense" that has not been stated as a exploit. I know plenty of people who do this and we have never been informed in any way that this move was illegal. You banned someone for killing you once with what you consider an exploit, that is not much warning.

    Furthermore, if you were heading the tests you should have prevented this from going in game to begin with, if you really consider it an exploit. It is you who is to blame for it, not someone who unwittingly uses it.
  • BladeBlade PVKII Team
    edited May 2008
    QUOTE (Ferg @ May 24 2008, 10:51 PM) »
    I have never had a situation in which a player was able to block my counterattack. That isn't me being stupid, that is just plain fact. I have "carefully timed" my counters as well. The animation is not odd, it is the normal counter-attack animation. You are suggesting that being able to bounce back after attacking is a logical and valid aspect of the game, yet that one should not be able to time one's counter? That is what sounds stupid to me.

    More importantly, I find it absurd that you would ban someone for an "offense" that has not been stated as a exploit. I know plenty of people who do this and we have never been informed in any way that this move was illegal. You banned someone for killing you once with what you consider an exploit, that is not much warning.

    Furthermore, if you were heading the tests you should have prevented this from going in game to begin with, if you really consider it an exploit. It is you who is to blame for it, not someone who unwittingly uses it.


    I told him its an exploit in the server, all he did was accusing me for exploiting and flamed me, thus, the ban.
    Here, in this thread, he keeps saying its ok, even though an admin told him it isnt, and he keeps assaulting me with insults, such as you did.

    The animation when using the counter attack exploit is diffrent, it wasnt meant to be in the game, and it was fixed for 2.1.
    Besides, if this sort of attack is fine, then why isnt it made by default? so all counter attacks go through block? why need to use this sort of combo what 99% of the players arent aware of?


    Not alot of players know about this exploit, as it wasnt meant to be part of the game.
    If you had even the slightest idea about beta testing ,then you might have known that you cant find all exploits.
  • ParaSwarmParaSwarm PVKII Team, Applicant
    edited 12:44PM
    Again, I'm waiting for a real PVK developer to come clarify this.

    As for claiming Ferg is insulting you... Ferg doesn't really insult anybody. He's just pointing out the facts. Bladeboy, you're the one with the inferiority complex. Grow up and act like an admin and team member instead of looking like a complete jackass.
  • AkzAkz PVKII Team
    edited 12:44PM
    QUOTE (eggzor @ May 24 2008, 09:58 PM) »
    The one that you, He-Man, has been seen using involves a few more moves after doing the perfect parry, which will create an attack that has a weird animation for it, which goes thru any direction of block.

    This is an exploit and is fixed in 2.1.
  • FergFerg Senior
    edited May 2008
    QUOTE (Blade @ May 24 2008, 01:06 PM) »
    I told him its an exploit in the server, all he did was accusing me for exploiting and flamed me, thus, the ban.
    Here, in this thread, he keeps saying its ok, even though an admin told him it isnt, and he keeps assaulting me with insults, such as you did.

    The animation when using the counter attack exploit is diffrent, it wasnt meant to be in the game, and it was fixed for 2.1.
    Besides, if this sort of attack is fine, then why isnt it made by default? so all counter attacks go through block? why need to use this sort of combo what 99% of the players arent aware of?
    Not alot of players know about this exploit, as it wasnt meant to be part of the game.
    If you had even the slightest idea about beta testing ,then you might have known that you cant find all exploits.

    Well I don't know what you or he said in the server, but I can definatively say that I haven't insulted you in this thread. I have nothing against you personally, I have only said that I don't believe that someone who would ban so unjustly should not be an official server admin. I have not called you names or insulted your character.

    As for my Beta comments, I was not saying that I expect you to catch every issue, i'm simply saying that this is a game mechanic that you left intact that none of the general population knew was not to be used, so how can you blame us when we use it?

    You keep talking about this "unblockable counter combo" when it is a very simple extension of the counterattack... one simply PPs, keeps block held down and then waits a moment before making one's counter. That is nothing special. The reason people would use this is so that they can better control their counter so they can aim at a dodging opponent. A player is forced to use this kind of tactic if their opponent bounces back, on the other hand there are plenty of ways around a "block whore" aside from bouncing back.

    I think that kind of countering is completely justified and I don't believe counters should be blockable.
  • Cool ManCool Man Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    QUOTE (Ferg @ May 24 2008, 04:38 PM) »
    I too am waiting for a real developer to clarify this. I think that kind of countering is completely justified and I don't believe counters should be blockable.


    Akz isnt enough real for you ? Or Blade in that matter? So who is then? Crazytalk? And I had impression that Blade has done pretty good job around beta-testing department. That they didnt gave him that Dev-status for nothing. Well Crazytalk can correct me in this one if I am wrong.
  • BladeBlade PVKII Team
    edited 12:44PM
    QUOTE (Ferg @ May 24 2008, 11:38 PM) »
    Well I don't know what you or he said in the server, but I can definatively say that I haven't insulted you in this thread. I have nothing against you personally, I have only said that I don't believe that someone who would ban so unjustly should not be an official server admin. I have not called you names or insulted your character.

    As for my Beta comments, I was not saying that I expect you to catch every issue, i'm simply saying that this is a game mechanic that you left intact that none of the general population knew was not to be used, so how can you blame us when we use it?

    I gave him a warning, he ignored it and said its fine.

    You keep talking about this "unblockable counter combo" when it is a very simple extension of the counterattack... one simply PPs, keeps block held down and then waits a moment before making one's counter. That is nothing special. The reason people would use this is so that they can better control their counter so they can aim at a dodging opponent. A player is forced to use this kind of tactic if their opponent bounces back, on the other hand there are plenty of ways around a "block whore" aside from bouncing back.

    I think that kind of countering is completely justified and I don't believe counters should be blockable.
  • DuckSauceDuckSauce May the Sauce be with you! Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    ok for some reason I decided to check out this topic and my hunch was right it IS interesting

    now I haven't played pvk2 for a while but I did alot at the start of beta 2.0 and as far as I know this is STILL beta 2.0 and in 2.0 counterattacks cant be blocked because using a perfect parry STUNS the attacker, the stun lasts long enough to not ever in time get as far as to even block, how would it matter if its blockable or not? as far as I know you have no time to even block so it doesn't matter a shit if its blockable
    if you somehow have the time to block in time you sirs are probably exploiting or there's some kind of new trick in town that's not considered an exploit for some weird reason.

    Really a counterattack only works after a PP! and PP's always stun or else it WASNT a PP and the STUN allows you incapable of blocking, how can he use a exploit to go through block if you shouldnt even be able to block in the first place????

    this is retarded I demand an explanation!
    (ignore the demand just trying to be funny over the net while I have this voice in my head)
    The sauciest person in the world.
  • DuckSauceDuckSauce May the Sauce be with you! Senior
    edited May 2008
    triple post.. delete this please
    The sauciest person in the world.
  • DuckSauceDuckSauce May the Sauce be with you! Senior
    edited May 2008
    triple post>_> delete!
    The sauciest person in the world.
  • FergFerg Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    QUOTE (Cool Man @ May 24 2008, 01:44 PM) »
    Akz isnt enough real for you ? Or Blade in that matter? So who is then? Crazytalk? And I had impression that Blade has done pretty good job around beta-testing department. That they didnt gave him that Dev-status for nothing. Well Crazytalk can correct me in this one if I am wrong.

    As you will notice, I immediately edited my post to ommit that part when I read Akz post. It hadn't been up when I started writing.

    And Ducksauce they are talking about this apparently unintended issue that players could hit people like Blade, who are using the bounce back exploit (Which they deem to not be exploiting apparently) as well as the counter being unblockable for other enemies besides the one you initially perfect parried. If this is truly being changed in 2.1 it really makes counter a lameduck ability and seems gamebreaking to me, but to each their own I suppose.
  • CrazyGoblinCrazyGoblin Everybody's favorite Greenskin Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    Whoah...

    Okay, bear in mind that I have very little knowledge of what all's going on with the blocking, counterattacking and so forth, because I haven't been following the forums for the past four months and haven't even played 2.0 yet.

    But, even with all that, I see here something drastically wrong. It has nothing to do with who is right or what is an exploit, it has to do with how you are all handling it. Blade is acting exceptionally pissy, seeming to take every disagreement as a personal attack, and returning in kind. Even if He-Man was indeed exploiting, and refused to cease and desist after being asked to do so, and proceeded to ignore any and all threats/complaints/requests, that still gives absolutely no justification to act this way.

    Some of you say that this particular form of counterattack is an exploit. I personally think that some sort of "free hit" after a perfectly-executed parry would be perfectly fine, but remember that I have no idea about the current combat system, let alone this move in particular. But I would think that being able to jump and send yourself flying away to safety after having your attack blocked is most certainly an exploit, as no one should ever be given total invincibility.


    But my thoughts on those matters has no importance, because like I said, I don't know about the current combat system. What I do know, however, is that and administrator banned a player after an exploit was used against him one time.

    Now, maybe I'm just missing something. Maybe there's more to the story. Blade, I humbly request that you justify your actions by posting A) A list of all the times other players on the server complained about or reported the exploit, B) An estimate as to how many times the exploit was used against you or against someone else that you could see, C) Some reason as to why you used such measures as banning He-Man instead of simply kicking or doing some other deterrent.

    Administrator status does not qualify anyone as having superior opinions or unquestionable will. Administrators are assigned to provide power to the people, for as corny as that sounds. Administrators are there to serve as the power obeying the people, not commanding them. If the "general public" on a server requests something, the administrator is given the power to fulfill their wishes. Administrator status is abused when the person uses it to further their own agenda over that of the general players.

    As far as I can tell, Blade used the power of his administrator status without having anyone ask him to do so. In other words, he was using the power fully to further his own decisions, rather than that of the players. That is abuse.


    This is not a war. There are no sides to join or support. There is absolutely no reason for hostile behaviour, insults, or threats. Calm down, clarify all points of the situation, and act like you aren't the first generation out of the trees.
    image
  • ParaSwarmParaSwarm PVKII Team, Applicant
    edited May 2008
    So counter-attacking going through block is an exploit?

    Is it an exploit if the enemy didn't block?
    If he does block, THEN does the counterer become an exploiter?

    Clarify that for me, Blade.

    Also, to my knowledge, it's never been labeled as an exploit before today. Almost every admin on the US Official servers use the counter-attack in that manner. I probably have demos to back this up. So most admins should be banned by this logic.

    Also, most of the "pro" players would be banned as well, since we've all been counter-attacking for months any way we can without anybody ever telling us this is a so-called exploit.

    Like I said, it's never been acknowledged as an exploit until today by Akz. Therefore, it's never been illegal to do on an official server before Akz's post. That means He-man should not be banned for something that has never been labeled an exploit until earlier today.

    It's called "ex post facto", and most countries have illegalized ex post facto laws. I.E. if I spit on the ground, and then tomorrow you declared that spitting on the ground was illegal, you could not arrest me for it.

    He-man should not be banned for something that was declared an exploit after the ban.

    This is news for the whole PVK community and deserves a thread by the Devs.
  • MaydayMayday Engineering Supreme Senior
    edited May 2008
    Just a question:

    How do you block a counter-attack anyways? It's too fast. If I saw someone blocking a counter, I would suspect that it was an exploit.







    Sorry if I'm an idiot, but I've never blocked a counter.
  • CrazyGoblinCrazyGoblin Everybody's favorite Greenskin Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    Well, counters are a little hard to block under normal circumstances, but there are ways.

    For instance, if it's just a simple kitchen counter, you can get away with extending your arms in front of you and putting one foot behind you to balance. They're very easy in comparison to the others, I'm afraid.

    Bar counters are tricky, as you can never be too sure which direction they'll come at you from. Trying to block them is not a good idea, as they often contain hot ashes and salty peanuts which can really ruin your day. The best defense is simply to keep them on edge and make weaving movements so that they remain unsure. If it picks a direction and tries to attack, get on the floor as fast as you an and roll to one side or the other. That will usually do it.
    image
  • MaydayMayday Engineering Supreme Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    You need to go and play 2.0
  • CrazytalkCrazytalk Terminator PVKII Team
    edited 12:44PM
    Keep flaming our team members, it's the quickest way to appeal your ban.

    badass.jpg

  • FergFerg Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    QUOTE (Crazytalk @ May 24 2008, 08:55 PM) »
    Keep flaming our team members, it's the quickest way to appeal your ban.

    Well He-man isn't flaming anyone right now, and he is the banned player. It seems pretty obvious that he isn't getting an appeal nonetheless.

    As for the rest of us, we are trying to make some progress here and make some sense of it all. There doesn't seem to be much though.
  • CrazyGoblinCrazyGoblin Everybody's favorite Greenskin Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    Three cheers for our totalitarian oppressors!
    image
  • DuckSauceDuckSauce May the Sauce be with you! Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    QUOTE (CrazyGoblin @ May 25 2008, 10:00 AM) »
    Three cheers for our totalitarian oppressors!


    make that four

    I agree with ParaSwarm, nowhere is it mentioned this is an exploit and since people have used it before without getting banned then you ban him for using an exploit that wasnt even marked an exploit before the ban. Doesn't seem right to me...
    The sauciest person in the world.
  • BladeBlade PVKII Team
    edited May 2008
    As i wrote before, i warned him before the ban(in the server) but he decided to accuse me of exploiting, saying what he did is ok and flamed me, thus, the ban.
    Here, in this thread, he keeps saying its ok, even though i told him in the server it isnt, and he keeps assaulting me with insults, good way to appeal the ban.
  • CrazyGoblinCrazyGoblin Everybody's favorite Greenskin Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    I highly recommend you show some sort of log, if you have any, of the flaming he shot at you in-game. Because you were the first one to insult someone in this thread, and most people agree with He-Man that the move is indeed "ok".
    image
  • MaydayMayday Engineering Supreme Senior
    edited 12:44PM
    QUOTE (Blade @ May 24 2008, 12:38 PM) »
    If a player blocks a counter attack, then it wont hit through his block.
    There is an exploit that make it so that the counter attack will ignore the block.

    You are either stupid, trying to protect your friend, or both.
    For the paraswarm guy- i dont see in the player guide where it says counter attack goes through block of the enemy. - pleaes enlighten me.
    Keep the attitude guys.


    How nice.
This discussion has been closed.