Archer>Sharpshooter, here's why.

2

Comments

  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited November 2014

    Then that's your fault for missing, and not taking advantage of the rifle.
    So i have to hit every shot 100% of the time with all of my weapons to be effective in a 1 v 1 and if i miss the rifle shot im screwed? Only in the pvkii world is a bow and arrow better than a gun
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited November 2014
    It does not take all the bullets of the flintlock... why are you trying to solo a HK? Archers don't even try to solo Huscarl generally either. Both are mountains to climb that generally is not advisable to do nor required most of the time.


    Only in the pvkii world is a bow and arrow better than a gun


    Would you prefer if the flintlock and rifle did immensely more damage and even higher shot speed? Inb4 "SS op nerf omg why would you do this this isn't CoD!" It is called balance. Only in the world of PVK2 a Javelin to the head/Claymore doesn't instant kill you--wait, realism in my PVK2? lol.

    SS is a high risk high reward more so than Archer (hint: they are not alike just because they are ranged), if one falters in it it is likely the fault of the player who generally should realize this instead of making excuses in which they will not improve from. Honestly, after that screenie I posted I am not sure why you are going on still. Their Knight top player was Archer. Or are you saying every person here who disagrees with you is incorrect?

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  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited November 2014

    It does not take all the bullets of the flintlock... why are you trying to solo a HK? Archers don't even try to solo Huscarl generally either. Both are mountains to climb that generally is not advisable to do nor required most of the time.



    Would you prefer if the flintlock and rifle did immensely more damage and even higher shot speed? Inb4 "SS op nerf omg why would you do this this isn't CoD!" It is called balance. Only in the world of PVK2 a Javelin to the head/Claymore doesn't instant kill you--wait, realism in my PVK2? lol.

    SS is a high risk high reward more so than Archer (hint: they are not alike just because they are ranged), if one falters in it it is likely the fault of the player who generally should realize this instead of making excuses in which they will not improve from. Honestly, after that screenie I posted I am not sure why you are going on still. Their Knight top player was Archer. Or are you saying every person here who disagrees with you is incorrect?
    Scores in random public games prove nothing about overall game balance in any game. You could do that with any class just like you can pull top score with a pistol in csgo plus your playing a super casual custom map so its not really representative of general gameplay. Besides i have seen you on meany other balance discussion threads and you have disagreed with pretty much all of them. The argument of "Just get gud" is a very cheap way out of the discussion i mean by that logic why dont they make a class that just has 30 javelins...why not? i mean if you get good you can dominate anyone with them right? Also 1 v 1 confrontations are most of your fights in pvkii so im basing my argument around that
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited 4:41PM

    Scores in random public games prove nothing about overall game balance in any game. You could do that with any class just like you can pull top score with a pistol in csgo plus its a super casual custom map so its not really representative of general gameplay. Besides i have seen you on meany other balance discussion threads and you have disagreed with pretty much all of them. The argument of "Just get gud" is a very cheap way out of the discussion i mean by that logic why dont they make a class that just has 30 javelins...why not? i mean if you get good you can dominate anyone with them right? Also 1 v 1 confrontations are 80% of your fights in pvkii so im basing my argument around that

    If you need 30 javelins to win, you need to get better lol
    76561198022443233png

  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited November 2014

    If you need 30 javelins to win, you need to get better lol
    A class with ONLY 30 javelins no 1st or 2nd weapon
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited November 2014

    Scores in random public games prove nothing about overall game balance

    It does when you know the players in the server and what they are playing as. I have seen and played with most of these people before multiple times. Davey Jones has just recently started playing after over a year as well and did quite well as you can see.

    its a super casual custom map so its not really representative of general gameplay

    Cath/Arena are the only maps to balance on in public servers? Don't even say Island, as we all know Knights get slapped more times than not on that one. In fact, Island is the most casual map compared to other stock or customs. In the screenshot example, they weren't being casual they were legitimately trying to kill me with effort and I would barely survive. Can see Knights were about to win by 1.

    Besides i have seen you on meany other balance discussion threads and you have disagreed with pretty much all of them.

    I can say the same and how generally most disagree with you.

    Also 1 v 1 confrontations are 80% of your fights in pvkii so im basing my argument around that

    Are you playing on empty servers? This is not true at all especially in heavy team based objectives or smaller maps. Are you basing balance on 1v1 solely too? That is not good. Must mean HK and Huscarl are OP against SS because SS can't solo it effectively.

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  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited November 2014

    It does when you know the players in the server and what they are playing as. I have seen and played with most of these people before multiple times. Davey Jones has just recently started playing after over a year as well and did quite well as you can see.


    Cath/Arena are the only maps to balance on in public servers? Don't even say Island, as we all know Knights get slapped more times than not on that one. In fact, Island is the most casual map compared to other stock or customs. In the screenshot example, they weren't being casual they were legitimately trying to kill me with effort and I would barely survive. Can see Knights were about to win by 1.


    I can say the same and how generally most disagree with you.


    Are you playing on empty servers? This is not true at all especially in heavy team based objectives or smaller maps. Are you basing balance on 1v1 solely too? That is not good. Must mean HK and Huscarl are OP against SS because SS can't solo it effectively.
    Gameplay should be balanced 100% around official maps balancing the game for a Mario cart map for example is not good. And by 1 v 1 i was talking about melee classes only not ranged classes. Anyway getting back to the topic i was saying the crossbow was too strong before the update and it looks like the devs agreed with me. (Almost everyone else disagreed of course).
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited 4:41PM

    Actually i was saying the crossbow was too strong before the update and it looks like the devs agreed with me. (Everyone else disagreed of course). Gameplay should be balanced 100% around official maps balancing the game for a Mario cart map for example is not good.


    The crossbow change (as well as majority of the other balance changes) were done before most of these posts (Captain, Xbow, etc). Balance change won't happen because of one person and the reasons you gave were not related at all to the reason for the changes. So no, there was no agreement with your reasoning.

    Balancing is seen across a variety of situations. Testing is done on official maps which you shouldn't even be questioning. However, if I see multiple troubles for a class regarding various situations (ala SS not being able to fire the rifle in the air and ironsight transition being too slow with both of his ranged weapons or Huscarl just slapping multiple classes with not as much effort compared to HK) in public build I would bring it up. Most glaring issues I look for (as well as others on the team) come from public build across variety of maps regardless if official (including island) or custom. Because one team may be stronger than another on one map is not a strong enough reasoning to cause a balance change. Again, testing is done through official maps, that is zero surprise.

    And by 1 v 1 i was talking about melee classes only not ranged classes

    Your argument was about Archer and SS, which are ranged classes... However, the same applies to melee classes as it is not "80%" of the time straight full hp and armor to zero 1v1ing. People "may" engage initially 1v1 (again, may, as in it doesn't mean it is "80%" of the time) but that can quickly change to team fight or tactical retreating. This is what makes PVK2 interesting as how quickly the dynamic of the battle can change. This is not rock paper scissors.

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  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited 4:41PM
    Changes affect the classes
    Skill determines how well you use it

    They could change it so that the SS rifle has built in aimbot and 1/2 second reloads, but he can still be trumped by people better than him.
    76561198022443233png

  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited November 2014

    The crossbow change (as well as majority of the other balance changes) were done before most of these posts (Captain, Xbow, etc). Balance change won't happen because of one person and the reasons you gave were not related at all to the reason for the changes. So no, there was no agreement with your reasoning.

    Balancing is seen across a variety of situations. Testing is done on official maps which you shouldn't even be questioning. However, if I see multiple troubles for a class regarding various situations (ala SS not being able to fire the rifle in the air and ironsight transition being too slow with both of his ranged weapons or Huscarl just slapping multiple classes with not as much effort compared to HK) in public build I would bring it up. Most glaring issues I look for (as well as others on the team) come from public build across variety of maps regardless if official (including island) or custom. Because one team may be stronger than another on one map is not a strong enough reasoning to cause a balance change. Again, testing is done through official maps, that is zero surprise.


    Your argument was about Archer and SS, which are ranged classes... However, the same applies to melee classes as it is not "80%" of the time straight full hp and armor to zero 1v1ing. People "may" engage initially 1v1 (again, may, as in it doesn't mean it is "80%" of the time) but that can quickly change to team fight or tactical retreating. This is what makes PVK2 interesting as how quickly the dynamic of the battle can change. This is not rock paper scissors.
    It doesn't matter whether the change was because of me or not it doesn't even matter if they seen it the point was they agreed with me though there testing that it did too much dmg i was right and everyone else who disagreed was wrong. Also i can see how my other point may have been confusing i will try and be more clear next time but i do think rock paper scissors works better in my opinion i mean look at the examples of games that use this technique for there games
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited 4:41PM

    Changes affect the classes
    Skill determines how well you use it

    They could change it so that the SS rifle has built in aimbot and 1/2 second reloads, but he can still be trumped by people better than him.


    In this example or even one more crazy a class with an instant kill aoe special that covers 3x the length of HK's, I am sure it doesn't matter the map if they are slapping faces effectively on all of them.

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  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited November 2014

    Changes affect the classes
    Skill determines how well you use it

    They could change it so that the SS rifle has built in aimbot and 1/2 second reloads, but he can still be trumped by people better than him.
    If you have aimbot no one can be better than you unless you dont know how to use a keyboard or how to click a mouse
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited 4:41PM

    the point was they agreed with my point


    and the reasons you gave were not related at all to the reason for the changes


    I am reminded of Romney essentially saying "I was right about Russia so thus I should've been President because in hindsight that makes me better than Obama I'd have stopped Ebola too".

    People were saying Archer OP for years before you appeared to comment on the variety of reasons people were already talking about including xbow. Anything you had said was not new or original but hyperbole most of the time (and quite stubborn) from what I read.


    If you have aimbot no one can be better than you unless you dont know how to use a keyboard or how to click a mouse


    Aimbot 2 seconds reload is not going to stop an entire team jumping on him. But you're just splitting hairs at this point.

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  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited November 2014

    I am reminded of Romney essentially saying "I was right about Russia so thus I should've been President because in hindsight that makes me better than Obama I'd have stopped Ebola too".

    People were saying Archer OP for years before you appeared to comment on the variety of reasons people were already talking about including xbow. Anything you had said was not new or original but hyperbole most of the time (and quite stubborn) from what I read.



    Aimbot 2 seconds reload is not going to stop an entire team jumping on him. But you're just splitting hairs at this point.
    Im sure they were and im sure you have been defending him for years too so whos right in the end? Also most of your arguments are really dismissive no middle ground at all. And the games been out for 7 years so of course anything i say will not be new or original
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited 4:41PM
    You're committing the Middle Ground fallacy. The middle ground between two extremes is not necessarily the truth.
    76561198022443233png

  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited 4:41PM

    You're committing the Middle Ground fallacy. The middle ground between two extremes is not necessarily the truth.
    i could argue that but im not going to because it would just spam the topic
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited November 2014

    Im sure they where and im sure you have been defending him for years too so whos right in the end? Also most of your arguments are really dismissive no middle ground at all. And the games been out for 7 years so of course anything i say will not be new or original


    Do you have proof of this? I am not sure if you are at a state to mention dismissive since most (all) of your posts have had quite an amount of exaggeration to it as you have been seeing here by various people towards you.

    I did not "defend Archer" in the way you state considering it was a collaboration including myself (that I brought up) to look into Archer for quite some time particularly after a good bit of time passed with SS release. In fact, I had personally tested with several testers the Xbow damage on a variety of classes with various distances and damage tweaks to get it to where it is this past patch. So no, you did not one up anyone but you may feel free to continue to if it means stroking the ego. Most of my responses to posts such as Archer/Captain/etc. was to dismiss hyperbole that their reactions and views are exaggerated and how certain suggestions would be too strong of a change (aka Captain sword being heavy status etc).


    But to summarize the original topic discussion:

    - SS isn't terrible or eclipsed by Archer particularly since 3.0 (which were mostly QoL changes)
    - SS doesn't require all his ammo to kill HK let alone Berserker (lol...)
    - SS is high risk high reward more so than Archer and requires strategic use to be used fully, meaning it is more the player than the class
    - Archer shooting in the water isn't a massive power buff compared to SS to argue one is better than another (I mean, seriously?)
    - Is SS/Archer perfect? No class is perfect, tweaks will always occur one way or another and if they need tweaking then that day will come but aren't related to hyperbole mentioned (or even considered by me as they aren't constructive criticism but just whining)

    This is pretty much the stance I have. If one wishes to argue it (constructively) well that is up to them but I'll just be referring to this towards exaggerating posts as they can just read what I said each time here and pretend its an auto reply.

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  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited November 2014

    Do you have proof of this? I am not sure if you are at a state to mention dismissive since most (all) of your posts have had quite an amount of exaggeration to it as you have been seeing here by various people towards you.

    I did not "defend Archer" in the way you state considering it was a collaboration including myself (that I brought up) to look into Archer for quite some time particularly after a good bit of time passed with SS release. In fact, I had personally tested with several testers the Xbow damage on a variety of classes with various distances and damage tweaks to get it to where it is this past patch. So no, you did not one up anyone but you may feel free to continue to if it means stroking the ego. Most of my responses to posts such as Archer/Captain/etc. was to dismiss hyperbole that their reactions and views are exaggerated and how certain suggestions would be too strong of a change (aka Captain sword being heavy status etc).


    But to summarize the original topic discussion:

    - SS isn't terrible or eclipsed by Archer particularly since 3.0 (which were mostly QoL changes)
    - SS doesn't require all his ammo to kill HK let alone Berserker (lol...)
    - SS is high risk high reward more so than Archer and requires strategic use to be used fully, meaning it is more the player than the class
    - Archer shooting in the water isn't a massive power buff compared to SS to argue one is better than another (I mean, seriously?)
    - Is SS/Archer perfect? No class is perfect, tweaks will always occur one way or another and if they need tweaking then that day will come but aren't related to hyperbole mentioned (or even considered by me as they aren't constructive criticism but just whining)

    This is pretty much the stance I have. If one wishes to argue it (constructively) well that is up to them but I'll just be referring to this towards exaggerating posts as they can just read what I said each time here and pretend its an auto reply.
    I said anyone who ever questioned the archers balance was correct not just me i once made a forum about it and meany many people agreed with me beta testers normal players and devs alike (Besides you of course lol). I can also point you to meany other topics where people have agreed with my points and i have agreed with theirs. As for the ammo thing im sure your assuming the best case scenario (He is fully loaded hits all his shots ect) and i also suggested a captain speed buff along with meany others (which you of course disagreed with). As for the other stuff im not a beta tester so i can only speak from a normal everyday players point of view
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • edited 4:41PM

    I said anyone who ever questioned the archers balance was correct not just me i once made a forum about it and meany many people agreed with me beta testers normal players and devs alike (Besides you of course lol). I can also point you to meany other topics where people have agreed with my points and i have agreed with theirs. As for the ammo thing im sure your assuming the best case scenario (He is fully loaded hits all his shots ect) and i also suggested a captain speed buff along with meany others (which you of course disagreed with). As for the other stuff im not a beta tester so i can only speak from a normal everyday players point of view


    Man, I'd pick the fancy dagger over the butter knife any day. You obviously just don't know how to use the dagger. The back swing charges so fast that you can FC bounce any class no problem, and the recovery is quick that you can get a few swipes in before they recover. The knife is great for quick building your special. As long as you know how to sidestep and not back peddle. If you need to learn how to play the sharp shooter class, just watch Pache play it for a little bit. Coming on here and mitigating your inner frustrations doesn't do anyone good. You troll thread after thread, but what does it gain you? Just stop thumping on your chest like a damn ape and get a therapist to listen to you.
  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited 4:41PM
    Mango wrote:

    Man, I'd pick the fancy dagger over the butter knife any day. You obviously just don't know how to use the dagger. The back swing charges so fast that you can FC bounce any class no problem, and the recovery is quick that you can get a few swipes in before they recover. The knife is great for quick building your special. As long as you know how to sidestep and not back peddle. If you need to learn how to play the sharp shooter class, just watch Pache play it for a little bit. Coming on here and mitigating your inner frustrations doesn't do anyone good. You troll thread after thread, but what does it gain you? Just stop thumping on your chest like a damn ape and get a therapist to listen to you.
    You have 10 posts and most of what you said is an opinion just like me i just throw my opinions out there like everyone else you seem to be the one getting frustrated tbh. I've never been more calm
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • edited 4:41PM

    You have 10 posts and most of what you said is an opinion just like me i just throw my opinions out there like everyone else you seem to be the one getting frustrated tbh. I've never been more calm


    Yes, I do have ten posts. But is so painfully obvious that you are trolling for attention that someone with ten posts can see what you are doing.
  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited 4:41PM
    Mango wrote:

    Yes, I do have ten posts. But is so painfully obvious that you are trolling for attention that someone with ten posts can see what you are doing.
    If that's really what you think then there's nothing i can do to change it so think what you want
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • JollyRogerJollyRoger Members, Senior
    edited 4:41PM
    While I'm not fond of archers I wouldn't say they are unbalanced.

    In coordinated battle they are an equal match and in chaotic public matches they can manipulate the same.
  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited November 2014
    JollyRoger wrote:

    While I'm not fond of archers I wouldn't say they are unbalanced.

    In coordinated battle they are an equal match and in chaotic public matches they can manipulate the same.
    I still think they shouldn't be able to hold there own up close against a captain or a viking personally if you dont think they can watch an expert archer his melee shouldn't be able to parry medium weapons imo
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • Links121995Links121995 Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited 4:41PM
    To the people whom Bellamy is engaging with: stop defending yourselves.
    To the people who would engage with Bellamy: don't.
    To Bellamy:
    8gQi4T5.png
  • FelisFelis Glitch Kitty PVKII Team
    edited 4:41PM

    You have 10 posts and most of what you said is an opinion just like me i just throw my opinions out there like everyone else you seem to be the one getting frustrated tbh. I've never been more calm


    4Jj1iCA.jpg

    Yeah sure, people with bigger post count have more knowledge about the game? Stop that trolling already.
  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited 4:41PM

    To the people whom Bellamy is engaging with: stop defending yourselves.
    To the people who would engage with Bellamy: don't.
    To Bellamy:
    wat :blink:
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited 4:41PM
    Felis wrote:

    4Jj1iCA.jpg

    Yeah sure, people with bigger post count have more knowledge about the game? Stop that trolling already.
    No but then again what else do i have to go on?
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • SpirrwellSpirrwell That Guy That Knows Things About a Lot of Things Members
    edited 4:41PM

    No but then again what else do i have to go on?

    His Steam profile? He's got the same name. He has 724 hours on PVKII.

    Also, if I may be so bold as to guess your Steam profile, it looks like you have about 281 hours.
    5GY1DFV.png


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    yP71cHI.gif

    Xxkr2il.jpg
    56JtqQq.jpg
    kJFRh1a.png
    MOBO: MSI Z87M GAMING
    CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-4770K OC'd @ 3.7 GHz
    GPU: EVGA GTX 660 Ti
    RAM: Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 2133MHz
    OS: Windows 10 Technical Preview

  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited 4:41PM
    Goodbye wrote:

    His Steam profile? He's got the same name. He has 724 hours on PVKII.

    Also, if I may be so bold as to guess your Steam profile, it looks like you have about 281 hours.
    Incorrect
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
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