Remove 100% charge from counter attack

shayologo

Hi

I think gameplay will be funnest by making counter attack only uncharged attack
Parry systeme must be an help in fight and not a way to kill (make 100% charged attack without charge time)

Mr. Unicorn

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, but I'll excuse your English skills because they're much better than my French skills. I think you're saying that you don't want any charge time and attacks should automatically charge 100%. I disagree with this because you would be removing a core mechanic from the game. I'm quite happy with the parry system.

Hei

He means the counterattack after you get a perfect parry should be parry-able.

Could be interesting.

eggzor

No.
I think he means that the counter-attack that you do after a successful parry is as strong damage wise as a fully charged attack would be. He wants the counter-attack to not be this powerful and instead have the power of a totally uncharged attack.

Unknown

Both 2 things mentioned above^ would be nice.

Crackpunch

Don't touch a thing, the game is fine as it is.

The counter-attack's direction is determined by the block, which is in turn determined by the direction of the original attack. It is also very rapid. This makes the proposed "blockability" only useful for people with autoparry, furthering the gap between manual and auto players. It can also turn into a useless addition(because your opponent is unable to parry due to the stun) or a gamechanger(enabling long parry-counter duels between the players, slowing the game).

In the end, mostly no. It will make people even more reliant on their parry to win. Still, the idea might be worth investigating.

shayologo

QUOTE (eggzor @ Dec 24 2011, 09:57 PM) »

No.
I think he means that the counter-attack that you do after a successful parry is as strong damage wise as a fully charged attack would be. He wants the counter-attack to not be this powerful and instead have the power of a totally uncharged attack.

This is exactly what i mean

be parry by an Hk = 90% of death change because you lost 50% of your heal (with lag it's happen often : a 100% charged attack is PP)

I really think some parry mechanic must be change for exemple

blocking is wrong direction must reduce only 50% of dmg
blocking a 100% charged attack must reduce only 75% of dmg

block spammer get to much protection, alone it's take 2-3 mn to kill one only with 100% charged attack

Or add statmina to block

KOKORONOKAWARI

In the case of people who have shields, use fully charged shield block to break through the parry and hit them.

If you mean ones without shields but who can hit fast (ala Skirmisher), change your attack direction and quickly attack again. You'll do more damage that way since they'll incorrectly parry.

Or, if you have ammo, throw/shoot them.

QUOTE (Crackpunch @ Dec 24 2011, 09:41 PM) »

Don't touch a thing, the game is fine as it is.

This too.

bERt0r

I just came up with an idea: why not rethink the parrying system altogether. If you watch parrying in real sword fights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjT4JepA-Vc
you see that the pvk models are doing it wrong. If you want to parry an overhand strike or a thrust, you dont try to put your blade directly against the incoming blade and somehow push it back - the attacker will always have more force since he swings - instead you try to pry the opponents blade to the side.
So what this could mean for pvk: instead of having only 1 proper block direction (which is not really important because of autoparry anyway) you would have 2. So if you parry an uncharged overhand strike, depending on your block direction you could make 2 different counter attacks (left and right). This could bring a whole new dynamic into fights and also give manual parry users even more control: Since counterattacks are pretty much instant, you could hardly autoparry a counterattack properly. With manual parry on the other hand you could feign a weak attack, let your opponent parry hoping for a counterattack which you can parry yourself since you can estimate the direction, based on your first attack.
Obviously, this all would require major testing - the obvious problem of having neverending parry and counter parry battles would have to be addressed -> for example decreasing the time window for a counterattack after the parry succesively after each parry or being unable to counterattack after some damage got through (late parries) or even charging up counterattacks so they break the parry.
Edit: sry for the myriad of spelling mistakes

shayologo

PVKII is a game and fight arn't realiste

in reality if they have armor you can't really kill theim with tactic in your video, you must make very powerfull hit

Some video exemple
On chainmail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ec6Ub7FM
On helmet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h0e0NSwYNg
On plate armor at the end http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDkoj932YFo

bERt0r

I dont know what you want to show with your videos, i was just trying to back up your suggestion in the first place. Obviously, armor was made to block weapons, it would have been pointless if hits could just penetrate it easily.
Some people just have the the false impression that a perfectly wielded sword can cut a plate armor in half - katana fanboys replace sword with katana plz.
Fact is: you cant. Steel cannot cut steel of equal quality. It can bend it, it can cause some trauma with the impact, but it cannot cut it.
Chainmail is an ingenious invention by the european medieval smiths. It blocks slashes and thrusts very well, though attacks by blunt weapons like a war hammer are very effective. Guess why so many different medieval weapons were invented in europe, because the armors kept getting better and certain weapons became less effective.
Of course, when guns were invented, all the armor was for naught. Thats why the pirates did not wear chain mails.
PS: And of course the guys in my video were not fighting with sharp blades. I think those are dull aluminium blades. Though if you watched the fight, once one gets a hit in and the other falls down, he could easily finish him. The video is like a compilation of 30 or so battles, everytime one of them loses the parry battle he would most likely die in real combat.

shayologo

Historien think Chain mail was invented in III befor JC by gaul, it's not a medieval invention
Only full plate armor was invented since antiquity

In video with katana i think it's a fact video, the longsword is not sharpened

Wood can block a sword (shield) so a stell must be same

bERt0r

Sry but that katana vs longsword video is bs. Apart from katanas are not being relevant for pvk anyway, they are great for cutting unarmored peasants, skirmishers and zombies, but not for thrusting or armour penetration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osTQrJ_axfc
And i agree with you, to break a shield, a sword or arrows wont do any good. You would need an axe or a blunt weapon to break one.

Dr.Seezme

I noticed that on a one on one battle of captian vs berseker that if I get a series of counters on a berserker that is only using dual wield, then the zerker dies and I am left about to be pushing up daisies. So no.

Jizzler

The counter attack should be as strong as the attack. (attack = 50 % --> counter-attack = 50 %)
Fully charged acts as is.

But then again. I don't really care, it's playable enough.

dannyjohnson2121

Leave the game as it is. I like to parry

The Nibelung

I like the idea of having weak counter attacks.

Unknown

Same.

dannyjohnson2121

considering that the counter attack is fully charged it should not be parryable

shayologo

Keep idea to have not parryable counter attack but decrease attack dommage

Draulius

If the full charge is removed, expect to see people getting into a 'parry lock' where they endlessly parry each others swings with counters. That'd be some Matrix shirley.

simum

Draulius wrote:

If the full charge is removed, expect to see people getting into a 'parry lock' where they endlessly parry each others swings with counters. That'd be some Matrix shirley.

That actually sounds pretty cool

What I'd like to see them do is to remove the stun from parries instead of the extra damage

Draulius

Fights would take a lot longer then. I don't like that idea.

Naviboi

Yeah, what Draulius said, but in my opinion, I think the game should remove auto parry