te_Cave

Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
edited 9:03PM in Community Maps
For the nonstop fighters.
This map is a Territory map.

Download te_Cave_b1

When I started making this map, I was going to call it "Box", because I found out that a lot of players enjoy endless melee fighting, and nothing else.
It turned into a cave like map, very small, but that is the point. Could be just a bit too small, we'll see.

This map, (te_Cave_b1) took me 4 hours to make.

I tried to accomplish two things.
1. Endless melee fighting.
2. Fastest map to make.

This is definitely the fastest map I've made.

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This map has 1 feature. The spotlight's color above the territory changes to the team's color.

Each spawn has a protector to prevent enemies from entering the spawn and it also blows up kegs. Also, you can't use your weapons in spawn.

The Knights and Vikings can go back in their spawn once they leave it. This should be taken advantage of when a lit keg is present. If you go to your spawn you will be safe from them.
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Comments

  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    Making something really fast is not really an accomplishment.

    You really need to spend more time on eye-candy on all of your maps.
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  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited January 2011
    QUOTE (LordTrilobite @ Jan 5 2011, 01:49 AM) »
    Making something really fast is not really an accomplishment.

    To me it is. I set goals and I achieve them. That's how I make maps.

    Making myself create a map as fast as I can helps show myself how fast I can prepare a map.

    This helps further educate me and my study with Hammer.

    Edit: At least this is better than Box.
  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited January 2011
    That doesn't make it a good map though. Making a map as fast as possible will sooner make it a low quality map.


    Mapping is an art form, and you can't rush art.


    A map can have simple gameplay, for example for a clusterfeck of endless melee. But it can still be a piece of art by having a beautiful setting and surroundings. The trick is making both gameplay and aesthetics work together to create a nice and complete whole.


    I would consider this no more than a really simple test map. Not a map you'd actually play in just for the fun of it as there are better maps around for that.
    dragonattack_sig.jpg
  • LhorkanLhorkan PVKII Team, Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    I am going to agree with both of you here. I myself like setting myself challenges (the ballistarange map for instance I also wanted to complete as fast possible biggrin.gif), but it is also important to make your map look pleasing to the eye; even in the midst of chaos, players will always consciously and subconsciously notice their environment, and will enjoy the map that much more if it's nice to look at.

    So Watson, how about setting yourself the challenge of making a pretty map? icon_yarrpirate.gif
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  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    This map has potential to look pretty. It's like massacre but with TE! Even Mason made his massacre map prettier in the last version compared to the previous ones =) Wish he would update it D:

    Nichi2EditCROP_zpscolnflbv.gifKarenPirate1Crop_zps5ccbfa57.gifNichi1CROP_zpspr3i3epd.gif
    http://steamcommunit...m/groups/aclans Join and be pro today!


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    "I like axes"
    --kokoronokawari
    loli loli loli loli loli loli loli loli

  • edited 9:03PM
    You mean, this map has potential to DROP MY FPS to 10 while playing with like 20 players lol

    Although, i admire that you changed your way of mapping and actually made something within the theme of pvkii.

    Grats, now make it look PRETTY!!!! wink.gif
  • ZinuXZinuX Mutated Walrus Hamster Members, Beta Tester
    edited 9:03PM
    All those pickups make no sense at all, why have them if the fighting never ends and you just respawn two meters away?
    Remove them or place them in the spawns
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  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    QUOTE (HEAVEN_ABOVE @ Jan 5 2011, 08:01 AM) »
    You mean, this map has potential to DROP MY FPS to 10 while playing with like 20 players lol

    Although, i admire that you changed your way of mapping and actually made something within the theme of pvkii.

    Grats, now make it look PRETTY!!!! wink.gif


    QUOTE
    This map has potential to look pretty.


    QUOTE
    So Watson, how about setting yourself the challenge of making a pretty map? icon_yarrpirate.gif


    I will say that this map was in the theme of PVK 2, and that if this map is worth working on I will.
    Also, I do have a map under way for ZPS that the objective is to fit it in the ZPS theme and to be realistic.

    Yea, Me and Inbreastigator noticed that this map is quite small. He thinks that no more than 6 people, I say no more than 9.

    For gameplay, I think that I just need to spice up the cave more and make it twice the size. For eyecandy, This should be an island with a big cave, and I might consider making it look more 'publicly acceptable' because of the public norm were in these days. It has to look a certain way, or else it's not correct, right?
  • ZinuXZinuX Mutated Walrus Hamster Members, Beta Tester
    edited 9:03PM
    Wrong, yours just looks like there hasn't been paid much attention to the looks.
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  • edited January 2011
    Eyecandy is for casuals and n00bs, go and play your coil of duty 4 if you want some visuals you fridge.
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited January 2011
    QUOTE (ZinuX @ Jan 5 2011, 11:05 AM) »
    Wrong, yours just looks like there hasn't been paid much attention to the looks.


    It's all about whats on the inside, not on the outside!! :'(

    lol that was what I was trying to get across, that people always judge on the looks, which is a first impression. Once they get over on how it looks, they can continue to judge other things. I guess I'm trying to relate this to real life and how people judge on looks first, and that there is a lot more on the inside than what god gave you. Although in this scenario I am god and I can create my baby (map) to look like anything I want it to look like, I make my maps relevant to my life.

    And I did work on the looks a little on this map! Displacements and geometry! Not a box!

    QUOTE (PADDY O'FEIGUR @ Jan 5 2011, 11:19 AM) »
    Eyecandy is for casuals and n00bs, go and play your coil of duty 4 if you want some visuals you coons.

    <3
  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    QUOTE (PADDY O'FEIGUR @ Jan 5 2011, 07:19 PM) »
    Eyecandy is for casuals and n00bs, go and play your coil of duty 4 if you want some visuals you coons.

    Unless you are trolling or joking, I'm sad to see a beta tester take this attitude.

    There is a difference between fuctional visuals and over the top fancy graphics (which are nice, but not needed). Some old games still look good even though they are dated, while others will look horrid regardless of the year.

    QUOTE
    It's all about whats on the inside, not on the outside!! :'(

    lol that was what I was trying to get across, that people always judge on the looks, which is a first impression. Once they get over on how it looks, they can continue to judge other things. I guess I'm trying to relate this to real life and how people judge on looks first, and that there is a lot more on the inside than what god gave you. Although in this scenario I am god and I can create my baby (map) to look like anything I want it to look like, I make my maps relevant to my life.

    And I did work on the looks a little on this map! Displacements and geometry! Not a box!

    It's not just about the inside, or the outside. It's about the whole thing. Gameplay is the main thing in level design of course. But aesthetics are almost just as important to set the scene. If you want to create a certain look but don't know where to begin then that's just a matter of experience and parctice. But just disregarding it just makes no sense whatsoever. It reminds me of Counter Strike, it seems sometimes people make the most complex contraptions you can imagine and yet the maps look horrible, are a pain too look at and have no aesthetics at all.

    Don't get me wrong you've put some interesting concepts in maps, but this is just an empty husk.

    Really, spend more time on how a map looks.
    dragonattack_sig.jpg
  • DuddersDudders Cheeky Rascal Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    Eesa beet dark methinks.
    image
  • edited 9:03PM
    QUOTE (Dudders @ Jan 5 2011, 05:18 PM) »
    Eesa beet dark methinks.


    did Jar-Jar make this map?
    image
  • DuddersDudders Cheeky Rascal Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    You putta sam braycayble crates, okeeday?

    I hate myself.
    image
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited January 2011
    QUOTE (LordTrilobite @ Jan 5 2011, 03:09 PM) »
    It reminds me of Counter Strike, it seems sometimes people make the most complex contraptions you can imagine and yet the maps look horrible, are a pain too look at and have no aesthetics at all.

    I think the same way when a map looks orgasmic and "Holy sh*t when I first looked at it it looked like real life!" but then when you play it, the gameplay is awful and it's in and out of the map rotation like that.

    QUOTE (LordTrilobite @ Jan 5 2011, 03:09 PM) »
    Don't get me wrong you've put some interesting concepts in maps, but this is just an empty husk.

    This map was originally an exaggeration.

    When I was playing my new Gravity War map on a server, there was this guy who said: "Bring back the old version of Gravity War!" The reason why he wanted the old version was because in the old version you could go to enemies spawns and camp there and aimlessly kill enemies who spawned. I told him "Well then you're going to love this. I'm making this new map, it is exactly what your looking for!! Its called: "Box".

    So then I made this map. Although it is too small and needs more room to fight, I think I got the point across.

    Dudders,
    braycayble?

  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    Well obviously if a map looks good but doesn't play well it's not a very good map.

    Good maps both look and play good.
    dragonattack_sig.jpg
  • edited 9:03PM
    QUOTE (LordTrilobite @ Jan 5 2011, 10:09 PM) »
    Unless you are trolling or joking, I'm sad to see a beta tester take this attitude.

    It was a joke, but I like Watson's maps. Visuals aren't the most important thing in custom maps.
  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited January 2011
    Being a custom map has nothing to do with it. Yes gameplay is most important, but atmosphere is a close second.
    dragonattack_sig.jpg
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    QUOTE (LordTrilobite @ Jan 6 2011, 01:59 AM) »
    Well obviously if a map looks good but doesn't play well it's not a very good map.

    Good maps both look and play good.


    Official maps need to look good and play good.

    A map made from a random person shouldn't be judged in a way if it were in a contest. And people definitely judge like this, but in a way its helpful because all mappers like feedback regardless of if it's judged in a specific way.

    Custom Maps in general is like a grab bag.
  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    Actually, yes it should. The goal should always be a professional level, even though it's not always achieved.

    Custom maps should not be judged any differently from official ones.
    dragonattack_sig.jpg
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    QUOTE (LordTrilobite @ Jan 6 2011, 02:25 AM) »
    Actually, yes it should. The goal should always be a professional level, even though it's not always achieved.

    Custom maps should not be judged any differently from official ones.



    In a constructive point of view, yes.


    Some mappers do not have goals like this. Some mappers think that what they make is perfect, and make threads to show off what they did and to not receive criticism. Some mappers want to make surf maps only, what do you do there?
  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    Surf maps have almost become synonymous with crappy quality across several games, because many mappers don't pay attention to details. but why should surf maps or any other type of map be treated differently? When releasing a custom map for a game you are contributing to the community. If people make ugly maps for the community they are lowering the overall standards of the game. Giving constructive criticism on custom maps will improve the game as a whole. There is no excuse for neglected visuals, or for gameplay for that matter.
    dragonattack_sig.jpg
  • L4teniusL4tenius The Monkeyhandler Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    Agreed, you can always make something better. Little ambition is all you need.
    <
    image
    FEAR THE MONKEY
  • niknakniknak Authorized Creator, Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    even surf maps have some visual standart this time. your map looks like you spend not more than 30 minutes on it. it is good to have cool concepts, but if you fail to put them into a visually appealing map, it will mostlikely be just another map noone plays. here is some constructive critisism for you to improove your skills.

    - learn how to make a 3d skybox
    - learn how to use displacements properly (this is mostly playing around with them as they are very tricky)
    - place more props, not just crates and barrels, be creative
    - read some tutorial about linghting. even a good map can be ruined by bad lighting
    - try to set a theme and stick with it
    - place some plants, they always look nice


    hope this helps

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  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    To add to that list.

    - Coloured lighting is always nice if used correctly. It can really give an environment a certain mood.
    - Make everything logical, when making a house for example, add everything a house would need IRL that makes it complete.
    dragonattack_sig.jpg
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited January 2011
    Please guys, I know how to do a lot of these things.
    Trilo: THEN ADD THEM INTO YOUR MAPS!

    Don't tell me to learn these things, tell me to implement these things!!! This map has displacements, what's wrong with them?
    Also, if no server hosts this map, I won't have anything to motivate me to keep making this map work out. How about someone plays it and actually try the gameplay out for once instead of concentrating 100% on what's on this thread?

    - try to set a theme and stick with it
    agreed


    - place some plants, they always look nice
    agreed

    be creative
    Hell yea


    - Make everything logical, when making a house for example, add everything a house would need IRL that makes it complete.
    Good tip.



    When it comes to brushes and lighting, I have spent countless hours trying to fix my errors in the past. This is more of a shi*tty issue with what I try to do, I have gotten carried away with hammer thinking whatever I do in hammer will work perfectly in game. The compiling process fails because too many lights are on one face, brushes don't render correctly because their micro brushes, and lots of other scarring errors that KILL MY IMAGINATION.
  • niknakniknak Authorized Creator, Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    QUOTE (Gen.WatsonHV @ Jan 6 2011, 07:30 PM) »
    Please guys, I know how to do a lot of these things.
    Trilo: THEN ADD THEM INTO YOUR MAPS!

    Don't tell me to learn these things, tell me to implement these things!!! This map has displacements, what's wrong with them?
    Also, if no server hosts this map, I won't have anything to motivate me to keep making this map work out. How about someone plays it and actually try the gameplay out for once instead of concentrating 100% on what's on this thread?

    - try to set a theme and stick with it
    agreed


    - place some plants, they always look nice
    agreed

    be creative
    Hell yea


    - Make everything logical, when making a house for example, add everything a house would need IRL that makes it complete.
    Good tip.



    When it comes to brushes and lighting, I have spent countless hours trying to fix my errors in the past. This is more of a shi*tty issue with what I try to do, I have gotten carried away with hammer thinking whatever I do in hammer will work perfectly in game. The compiling process fails because too many lights are on one face, brushes don't render correctly because their micro brushes, and lots of other scarring errors that KILL MY IMAGINATION.


    i know hammer is a hard to learn and overly complex programm for difficult shapes, but in order to make good looking maps you have to get used to trying out many things, eventually one way will proove to be the right one for your problem. after some time you will be able to figure out which one it is a lot faster. a good tip for complex brushes is the cut tool, vertex tool screws up so many times and is overly complex to use. the flip tool is also great for mirroring stuff so you only need to do half of the work.

    displacements: the displacements you make are lets say "beginners" quality and you didnt make the outside walls into displacement. displacements mess up quite easiely if you arent careful. there are a couple of aproaches to do them, here are 2:

    1. you can create all the terrain you want with blocks eg 128 128 128 then delete the unwnted ones and then select all the vissible sides and subdivide.

    2. you make a big block and use the cut tool to carve out the geometry you want and delete the unwanted brushes and then subdivide. just be careful not to create any triangle shaped brushes as they cant be made into displacements.

    here you can see my first go on displacements, its also a cave. it is quite simple to create some impressive work with them: http://www.gamebanana.com/maps/51346

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  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 9:03PM
    Your saying to create a template with a flat surface, but that flat surface consists of a lot of individual blocks, and to only select the top brush and to create a displacement with those?
  • edited January 2011
    not sure what you mean with template anyways

    ya, the side that will be visible ingame

    the other sides will be invisible ( just like nodraw kinda but then for displacements)

    and the width will be zero.( i guess or just really really narrow lol)
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