Balance Testing Journal

KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing PersonBeta Tester
edited June 2015 in Dev Journal
oHwgFJu.png

Hello everyone,

I'm as most people know as kokoronokawari

There is always a concern about balancing and what the future may hold. The topic of interest many may have is regarding the range classes especially with Bondi being developed. As mentioned in a previous ranged class topic, we would reveal the greenlit changes for Sharpshooter and Archer to be tested in the future. Other future similar balance changes to test will be mentioned as they come closer.

I should warn everyone that these are all subject to change either by number tweaking, removal, additions, etc and aren't final. In addition, I can understand there may be various opinions about balance changes. That being said, I must ask that if you post, to follow the rules as stated in the sticky regarding this forum http://forums.pvkii....?showtopic=1262



~Ranged Class Adjustments~

-- Sharpshooter and Captain can move slowly while loading their rifle/blunderbus (non-special; see video below)
-- Sharpshooter (and MaA) can special with any weapon out
-- Sharpshooter's Rifle has some knockback
-- Sharpshooter's Flintlock bullet speed adjustment
-- Sharpshooter can reload his Flintlock while rolling
-- Archer's arrow requires more pull to impede movement of targets hit (aka flicking arrows by quickly tapping mouse1 won't be a reliable kiting method)


Movement while reloading test video (again, this is a test, so the animations aren't done yet nor is this the final speed):
[media]image

Nichi2EditCROP_zpscolnflbv.gifKarenPirate1Crop_zps5ccbfa57.gifNichi1CROP_zpspr3i3epd.gif
http://steamcommunit...m/groups/aclans Join and be pro today!


10402520_1443600839260675_3566335342614205908_nRESIZE_zpsf8423ece.jpg
output_6Dn6Cs_zpse8ae5afc.gif
tumblr_mq1t1bZGDA1r30985o1_400_zps948e174a.gif
tumblr_mviov3cTGP1r8bshso1_500_zpsbada721a.gif
"I like axes"
--kokoronokawari
loli loli loli loli loli loli loli loli

Comments

  • MrMohoMrMoho Senior
    edited June 2015
    Hmm, being able to walk that much while reloading and getting a knockback might turn the Sharpshooters rifle as much into his main weapon as his Pistol (maybe even above, who knows?).

    Personally, to make make my dream come true of his rifle being his main weapon, I would give the rifle a increased headshot damage on long range that at max deals 180-200 damage, since if you are able to headshot somebody (especially a twitchy class like an archer) with the rifle from that long distance (let's say on Island from the Pirate's chest raft to the tunnel leading to the knights), you deserve some credit in form of extra damage. And yes, you deserve to instanly kill a Archer.

    In order to balance that one out, of course, either his headshots up close should deal less damage, or his Flintlock should get nerfed with either increased reload time, decreased damage, or a little from both.

    That way he might turn into a defensive supporter, something the Pirates desperately are in need of. Then again, the listed ideas of extra Knockback and being able to walk while reloading could also work to turn him into that. Guess I can only wait and see until it gets released or something entirely different gets added (nothing of this is set in stone, after all).


    Well, over to the Capn'. Allowing him to reload his blunderbuss while moving might also finally allow for more opportunities to reload it and have it ready more often than just twice a life or so.

    Also:

    -- Archer's arrow requires more pull to impede movement of targets hit (aka flicking arrows by quickly tapping mouse1 won't be a reliable kiting method)



    tears_of_joy.jpg
  • NiveNive Beta Tester
    edited 8:44PM
    Are there going to be any additional changes to the blunderbus?
    I don't know what the general consensus is on the weapon, but I think it's lacking. What was the reason for nerfing the knockback to near nonexistance again?
    I feel it's strong enough, it just isn't reliable enough with so few projectiles.
    Perhaps increase the projectile count and redistribute the current damage to accommodate?
  • ɉ◎ℕɉ◎ℕ Beta Tester
    edited 8:44PM
    I too would like to see some changes to the Blunderbus, I know its a shotgun, but I would like a bit more range. I just generally strugle to use it effectively. Could some explain how it works?
  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited 8:44PM
    Jon wrote:

    I too would like to see some changes to the Blunderbus, I know its a shotgun, but I would like a bit more range. I just generally strugle to use it effectively. Could some explain how it works?

    More pellets that hit = more damage. It's actually very strong, even though it doesn't seem like it. Up close it removes quite a decent amount of armor, and is a very good weapon for finishing off people that are pushing up daisies.
    76561198022443233.png
    Gallery of Rage
    OnqKl5B.jpg
    8ICrnFR.png :wub:
    rYEKvgb.jpg
    He1WpjQ.png <- lts_skypirates fun
    d1vRvor.png
    TudA52z.png
    8ABWxKM.jpg
  • Jolly RogerJolly Roger Senior
    edited 8:44PM
    Why aren't the captain's and sharpshooter's legs moving when they are reloading their weapon?

    Also will you consider letting the Maa move while reloading his weapon too? I think the Maa desperately needs this.
  • Links121995Links121995 Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited June 2015
    Jon wrote:

    I too would like to see some changes to the Blunderbus, I know its a shotgun, but I would like a bit more range. I just generally strugle to use it effectively. Could some explain how it works?


    Approach your target until the reticule is a teensy bit smaller than the target is wide. Center the reticule over your target.

    Now pretend that the reticule is large enough to encompass the target from head to toe (assuming that you're aiming parallel to the ground).

    That's where half of the pellets will go (that reticule really needs an adjustment). Each pellet deals 11 damage, and there are 8 of them.

    Ideally, it should be a finisher to the front (no retaliation) or a sort of backstab (also no retaliation). If you're target is particularly weak, and you only need ~22 or so of that 88, then by all means fire away before they escape. One could also use it just before death in a final act of defiance and inconvenience.

    Archers with Just A Flesh Wound can be killed with the full 88 damage, Berserkers, Gestirs, and Men-At-Arms must be Bleeding profusely, and Heavy Knights and Huscarls must be on the low end of Pushing Up The Daisies (all that armor really gets in the way). If you know that your target is without armor, then you can usually add about one and a half health states to the previously mentioned states, and still eliminate the target with one shot.
    8gQi4T5.png
  • AGSMAAGSMA The Antichrist has Resurrected PVKII Team, Beta Tester
    edited 8:44PM
    Gotta love seeing my character profiles stretching out in that picture like they are inside a black hole.
    Also, it's nice seeing that the SS riffle's reload animation in third person needs some leg pushing. I'll be working in an improved version of it alongside some, surprises...
    ClaudeFrollo.PNG

    76561198031989549.png

  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Beta Tester
    edited June 2015
    Caution: I won't be doing a whole lot of back and forth debating but will give reasoning toward the decisions made and toward questions that I am at liberty to answer.


    MrMoho wrote:

    Personally, to make make my dream come true of his rifle being his main weapon, I would give the rifle a increased headshot damage on long range that at max deals 180-200 damage, since if you are able to headshot somebody (especially a twitchy class like an archer) with the rifle from that long distance (let's say on Island from the Pirate's chest raft to the tunnel leading to the knights), you deserve some credit in form of extra damage. And yes, you deserve to instanly kill a Archer.

    SS won't make his Rifle as a primary weapon. The reason for this is because this isn't PVK1 (one hit-ko) nor is it CS. SS should not be across the map acting like a sniper as it does not help with objectives (they won't capture chests, won't capture territories, won't get TW kills, etc) and it is really a waste of space as a teammate for PVK2's game.

    That way he might turn into a defensive supporter, something the Pirates desperately are in need of.

    He and Archer already are.

    Nive wrote:

    Are there going to be any additional changes to the blunderbus?

    Potentially, but the main purpose of the blunderbus, which is to finish off people quite easily, is still there (aka using up close to those with no/low armor).



    Why aren't the captain's and sharpshooter's legs moving when they are reloading their weapon?

    As stated above the video:
    Movement while reloading test video (again, this is a test, so the animations aren't done yet nor is this the final speed):



    Also will you consider letting the Maa move while reloading his weapon too? I think the Maa desperately needs this.

    I don't understand why he would desperately need it. He just uses it to pick off people from the distance to finish them off since his primary role is chasing and being in the front lines.

    Nichi2EditCROP_zpscolnflbv.gifKarenPirate1Crop_zps5ccbfa57.gifNichi1CROP_zpspr3i3epd.gif
    http://steamcommunit...m/groups/aclans Join and be pro today!


    10402520_1443600839260675_3566335342614205908_nRESIZE_zpsf8423ece.jpg
    output_6Dn6Cs_zpse8ae5afc.gif
    tumblr_mq1t1bZGDA1r30985o1_400_zps948e174a.gif
    tumblr_mviov3cTGP1r8bshso1_500_zpsbada721a.gif
    "I like axes"
    --kokoronokawari
    loli loli loli loli loli loli loli loli

  • MrMohoMrMoho Senior
    edited June 2015
    I'm sorry, but if his Flintlock stays as his main weapon I highly doubt he will ever be able to form his own personality and will always be branded as the poor-mans Archer.

    While their weapons act differently, their placestyle certainly doesn't: Jumping around in mid-range and shooting people. Right now the biggest difference is that the Sharpshooter prefers to start with his rifle while the Archer uses it as a finisher or to get people off of himself. Hell, the majority Sharpshooters I see actually main the rifle, even people who I know can play the game, just desperately clingling to their own lie of it being his main weapon.

    Don't want to have him snipe from long-rang? Okay, here's another idea. With the already existing ideas listed above, maybe increase his movement-speed while reloading (although in the video it already seems rather fast, I would like to see a comparision to a Sharpshooter walking at normal speed next to one that is reloading), decrease the rifles reload time (smokescreen, ahoy!) but increase that of the Flintlock.

    Since there is no reason to not get closer and the rifle allows more movement, people will play him more up close to the fight for easier headshots, then reload in the midst of battle and move towards his firends while juking anyone that is attacking them. At the same time he will also be more effective at long range (and therefor defending) with his increased reload speed, but, of course, once somebody catches him he is even more screwed than right now since his Flintlock won't be as good anymore.

    The Flintlock would be used to quickly finish off wounded foes (like a headshoted archer) or when running away from people when he can't allow himself to be slowdown from the rfiles reload.

    But knowing the Shapshooters I see every time I play the game, if the above canges get added, they will still focus the rifle, moreso even. And I might be potentially one of them (Again, would need a speed comparision to better fathom this).
  • Links121995Links121995 Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited 8:44PM
    Jumping around and shooting people at mid-range contradicts maining the rifle. Actually being able to play the game contradicts maining the rifle.

    Sharpshooters are already quite effective at long range defense, especially in groups. The problem is that groups of Sharpshooters have no staying power, and almost always lose any ground they gain the moment it's contested.

    With your suggested changes there would be almost no reason to use the flintlock.

    I advise you to avoid solo excursions and use the pistol. Have you learned how to aim it yet?
    8gQi4T5.png
  • SphynxSphynx Senior
    edited June 2015
    I hope those changes are part of a larger concept, because a reloading Sharpshooter running approximately as fast as the chest carrier he might be chasing is definitely the stuff of nightmares.
    mEtxJiK.png
  • MrMohoMrMoho Senior
    edited June 2015
    I never do solo excursions as a Sharpshooter, its suicide. And yes, I know how to shoot the pistol and always knew how and use it all the time, why do you people think I don't? The only thing I can come up with is that I harped on the point that if you are airborne you will often miss, no matter the distance to your target, unlike the archer. I also said that others I see try to main the rifle, not me. I can't blame them, however. Shooting and killing somebody with the rifle feels satisfying, not so much with the flintlock. Bah, whatever.

    I doubt there will be almost no reason to use the flintlock with my suggestions, it will basically always come into play whenever somebody decides to go for you and not your friends, which happens quite often, or when a target is on low healt and you can quickly finish him off with one or two shots,.

    That Sharpshooters have no staying power is a great point you brought up. Ranged classes in melee based game generally have that and usually get help with this from teammates, but I think I already sung enough about the lack of support his mateys provide.

    When played effectively, the Sharpshooter plays like the Archer, when played like the majority I see he plays unique but certainly not effective. Making his rifle his main weapon will make him unique and effective. That is my personal take on it, at least.
  • SphynxSphynx Senior
    edited 8:44PM
    He just uses it to pick off people from the distance to finish them off since his primary role is chasing and being in the front lines.

    MrMoho wrote:

    Right now the biggest difference is that the Sharpshooter prefers to start with his rifle while the Archer uses it as a finisher or to get people off of himself.


    Both quotes actually describe common uses of the rifle. Players often tend to switch between those based on the area they are in, e.g. a narrow tunnel underneath the Knight's castle versus a wide area like the Pirate base in bt_island.
    mEtxJiK.png
  • MrMohoMrMoho Senior
    edited 8:44PM
    While we're at it, have there been considerations about giving the Captain more control over his parrot? Something like if he sents out the parrot while aiming at somebody, the parrot will focus down that person until he is dead or he loses sight of him, while just throwing him out without a target makes him behave as is. I read that suggestion quite often in this forum and thought it was a good one.
  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited 8:44PM
    meh
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited 8:44PM
    MrMoho wrote:

    While we're at it, have there been considerations about giving the Captain more control over his parrot? Something like if he sents out the parrot while aiming at somebody, the parrot will focus down that person until he is dead or he loses sight of him, while just throwing him out without a target makes him behave as is. I read that suggestion quite often in this forum and thought it was a good one.

    Not being able to effectively use the parrot I see... :icon_pirate2: :parrot:
    76561198022443233.png
    Gallery of Rage
    OnqKl5B.jpg
    8ICrnFR.png :wub:
    rYEKvgb.jpg
    He1WpjQ.png <- lts_skypirates fun
    d1vRvor.png
    TudA52z.png
    8ABWxKM.jpg
  • jRocketjRocket Pixel Punisher PVKII Team
    edited 8:44PM
    Have there been any thoughts of making more dramatic changes across the board? Ex. Making all weapons do more damage, or giving everyone less health. I remember in PVK1 with some weapons you could kill some characters in 1 hit - which is silly, but it does seem like now even with the big 2-handed weapons it takes too many swings to kill someone.
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Beta Tester
    edited 8:44PM
    jRocket wrote:

    Have there been any thoughts of making more dramatic changes across the board? Ex. Making all weapons do more damage, or giving everyone less health. I remember in PVK1 with some weapons you could kill some characters in 1 hit - which is silly, but it does seem like now even with the big 2-handed weapons it takes too many swings to kill someone.


    I'd rather see a PVK1 style plugin than something that drastic for fun.

    MrMoho wrote:

    While we're at it, have there been considerations about giving the Captain more control over his parrot? Something like if he sents out the parrot while aiming at somebody, the parrot will focus down that person until he is dead or he loses sight of him, while just throwing him out without a target makes him behave as is. I read that suggestion quite often in this forum and thought it was a good one.


    I think it was in the pipeline for the future I'd have to get back to you on that

    Nichi2EditCROP_zpscolnflbv.gifKarenPirate1Crop_zps5ccbfa57.gifNichi1CROP_zpspr3i3epd.gif
    http://steamcommunit...m/groups/aclans Join and be pro today!


    10402520_1443600839260675_3566335342614205908_nRESIZE_zpsf8423ece.jpg
    output_6Dn6Cs_zpse8ae5afc.gif
    tumblr_mq1t1bZGDA1r30985o1_400_zps948e174a.gif
    tumblr_mviov3cTGP1r8bshso1_500_zpsbada721a.gif
    "I like axes"
    --kokoronokawari
    loli loli loli loli loli loli loli loli

  • Black BellamyBlack Bellamy Senior
    edited June 2015
    Jon wrote:

    I too would like to see some changes to the Blunderbus, I know its a shotgun, but I would like a bit more range. I just generally strugle to use it effectively. Could some explain how it works?
    oh yeah i remember that lol even if your right up close you gotta be pinpoint accurate if your one centimeter off it wont do any damage at all because its got hardly any spread or margin for error. id rather him have the vikings throwing axes tbh. although it does moderate dmg when it works
    "Everything with a beginning has an end"
  • MrMohoMrMoho Senior
    edited 8:44PM
    I finally figured out the real reason why the Sharpshooter's Flintlock is so wonky at long range: Despite aiming and standing still, he does not achieve perfect accuracy. On mid-range, it isn't that bad. On long-range however, the spread is really noticable.

    If intentional or not, I'd say to change it to perfect accuracy when aiming and not jumping/swimming. That should greatly reduce his wonkyness at long range.
Sign In or Register to comment.