pvk_finalbattle

edited 7:15AM in Community Maps
Territory
I'm working on a remake of the crazy, rediculous, somewhat boring map from PVK1, hopefully there will be much Lava this time.

The feel of the map won't be the same, for sure, but the design and the motif will certainly be there. The hopeless circling about the center; the wacky barricades, the annoying and pointlessness of all those walls. Yes, it sounds terrible, but it's something to start with, and honestly this game deserves a remake of every old (decent) map... yes, even pvk_hellawaits. Goodness, someone might actually make it playable this time!

The map was not that terrible, it just wasn't very decorative or festive; it was no pinegrove, for sure, but for an outdoors map it was relatively lagless, and had features somewhat similar to HL2's 3DSkybox.
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Comments

  • VV Lumberjack's son Senior
    edited 7:15AM
    Im not sure if I ever played finalbattle, But Hellawaits.... HELL YEAH! It was awesome to rush the pirate base with 5 berserkers. All just rush to the statue.
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  • edited June 2007
    I admit the details are sparse, but I've just had to tangle with the notoriously mysteriously unknown visleafs. The map is looking pretty darned square due to my obsessive visleaf perfecting, but it's not unsurmountable; the clipping lends itself to allowing me to do as much detail as I want without fear of uber-lag... it's actually looking... quite professional. Well, not looking from what I've given you to look at, but the magical red lines are very friendly.

    Here's an overview of the hill to be capture: v2
    QUOTE
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    And here's an old picture of pvk_finalbattle from PVK1:

    There's the Bonzai tree, the obsidian monoliths, the bland texture, the circle design, and the ruins on the outskirts of the map. The creator of the original map was rumored to be stoned when he concieved the idea, and was supposed to include rising lava, but that was never implemented into the map, nor is it very practical in the HL engine.
    QUOTE
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    UPDATE

    Valve recently changed HL2: Deathmatch so that mat_leafvis requires sv_cheats toggled. As a result you can no longer view visleafs in multiplayer matches... this function outlines in red the visual block your camera is positioned inside.

    Learn more about Visleafs at the Valve Developer Community
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  • Gobanzo_MonGobanzo_Mon Members
    edited 7:15AM
    Didn't finalbattle have piles of skulls all over the place? With a hellish looking sky? I also remember the hill leading to the center point being very steep.
  • edited June 2007
    It'll be hellish when I start building the hellish part. All the details, like the skulls, are on hold until I get the actual map built, and not the gimmicks. The tree is there because the map builds around it, partly... anyway there are also some huge monoliths in the old level that will be interesting to implement, to say the least.
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  • VV Lumberjack's son Senior
    edited 7:15AM
    Oh yeah... That map.
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  • GreyfoxGreyfox Senior
    edited June 2007
    I dont remember that map, but your map looks kool if a little contemporary, but that will probibly get sorted out further along the line.

    Someone should really redo Hellawaits as well, that map was wicked!!!
  • Gobanzo_MonGobanzo_Mon Members
    edited 7:15AM
    hellawaits was too big and took forever to find people unless the server had like...20+ people
  • edited June 2007
    Eh, I figure it'd be a sweet map if it was resized, though I have no idea how to make the Skull, Dragon, and Helmet doorways... those were... quite complicated brushwork. Maybe that's a job best left to the team when they reach the point when they can drink martinis and map at the same time.

    I've got some detail work done, if a little bit hastily. I'm trying to keep the texturing from being completely repetative throughout the whole walled structure... so I'm taking my time redesigning.

    QUOTE
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  • Number NineNumber Nine Senior
    edited 7:15AM
    Dude, stop remaking horrible maps. Defender and Ultima were your brightest stars, so do one of them ( I guess ultima isn't really possible with the ammount of content now).
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  • edited 7:15AM
    Dude, stop ragging on my choices, please. Notice the emphasis on politeness.

    I'm surprised nobody has asked for a remake of pvk_zombies!, but I'm not doing this map because I have nothing better to work on. Ultima isn't possible until someone enables the player_weaponstrip entity in HL2: Deathmatch. Defender is and was a bit of a bum map, an impossible objective, cramped house... a remake would be easy, improvements could be vast, but I never thought it was a great concept, myself.

    Besides, I'm learning things in the process... I wouldn't want my old maps to be rusty.
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  • GarreettGarreett Senior
    edited July 2007
    I tried to do a remake of Zombies, but I couldn't get the zombie respawner thing working..

    Edit: Well, it was "Kind of" a remake of Zombies. It was only a hill with a house on it.
  • edited July 2007
    There's been some progress, but I'm on vacation, using someone else's laptop to post, so no pictures for you.

    Additions include:
    * 1st layer of rooms around the capture room.
    * Mushrooms!
    * Improved Visleafs

    Nothing too special right now, but I'm pleasantly surprised with how well the texture design lends to the original gloom.

    Daydreaming of monolithic basalt,
    Your custom mapper,
    DK#2

    XOXOXOXOX
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  • edited 7:15AM
    QUOTE (Garreett @ Jul 2 2007, 06:21 AM) »
    I tried to do a remake of Zombies, but I couldn't get the zombie respawner thing working..

    Edit: Well, it was "Kind of" a remake of Zombies. It was only a hill with a house on it.
    You have my blessings (grrrrrraaaagh) if you want to remake Zombies!, or make your own, even. Far be it from me to monopolize one particular noun (except for Doom).

    Also, what's the problem with the respawner? Maybe I can help.
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  • Cool ManCool Man Senior
    edited 7:15AM
    QUOTE (Doom Knight #2 @ Jun 17 2007, 02:44 PM) »
    Dude, stop ragging on my choices, please. Notice the emphasis on politeness.


    I do not wish to provoke, but it's not only your choice. Even a single bad map can be a pain in the backside of the PVK2 scene till it's very end. This phenomena made playing PVK1 almost unbearable at times. Who still remembers omg_craterb1 or pvk_cartoonb2 or pvk_Oceancalm or the two Omnis? Those are some completely unplayable maps that come to mind, there are many more. Nothing wrong with making a bad map, the real crime is actually running that bad map on a server, or worse, making it a default map (cough temple cough). In this respect, PVK2 is doing better, but who knows where it'll go when even now a couple of maps can piss you off at times.

    I'm not saying your map will automatically be bad, but Finalbattle sucked ass and mostly nothing good comes from such bad ingredients. I presume you understand the things that made Finalbattle such a horrible map, such as the way too large size, combined with randomness and the lack of food and armor. Some classes were simply unplayable. (berserk) Lack of food and armor wasn't such a hindrance in Colosseum, but that aside, I don't know. But what will be really different in this one? You told a few things already, but that and a picture isn't much to comment on. I don't want to crush a project that has taken your time and trouble, but the last thing PVK2 needs is another poor map.

    Long and proper testing with honest testers is needed, as are necessary changes, even large ones. Either that, or scrapping the whole project. In my opinion, every map-maker should take their maps through a phase like that. Especially as most makers seem to be focusing on some very "funny" and "clever" idea (traps, catapults etc) rather than on game balance or functionality. Maps are half of the mod's balance, after all. As a rule, the maker is quite blind to his own creation's flaws and testing seems to be non-existant. Most of the time this leaves all of the responsibility to the people running the servers. Really, please be careful with this. Quantity does not compensate for quality, and indifference can do a great deal of damage to the mod's future.

    It's difficult to tell how large impact maps had in PVK1's popularity, or the lack of it to be more accurate, but certainly somewhat and presumable a lot. Even the mediocre maps. Most people seek quality and playability. Many won't play a sympathetic or potential mod for long just to support it's development.
  • GreyfoxGreyfox Senior
    edited 7:15AM
    Its natural selection really if a custom map sucks then the server admin will hear about it from the players and remove it from the rotation.
  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited 7:15AM
    QUOTE (Greyfox @ Jul 6 2007, 12:59 AM) »
    Its natural selection really if a custom map sucks then the server admin will hear about it from the players and remove it from the rotation.

    Not always, just look at CSs, it's littered with horrible maps that are amazingly popular.
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  • edited July 2007
    QUOTE
    pvk_Oceancalm
    You rag on oceancalm, a relatively well-designed and entertaining map, but you completely fail to mention pvk_marktastic. You, sir, have lost your Cool.

    But seriously, I've made my share of shitty maps; I promise this one will at least be adequately fun. I'll see about doing a beta run when I've got something to playable, but I'm not going to release a public beta-map... nothing irks me more than having multiple copies of the same map floating around on servers.

    Assuming anyone would want my beta map...
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  • edited July 2007
    I find that simple designs work better than complicated ones. Maps like Fort, Desert Ruin, and Island only consist of a few rooms linked in varying manners. There really isn't any more depth to their design than the depth offered in PVK1's FinalBattle. If anything Final Battle had far more potential than Island ever will, due to the number of directions the player can travel. It isn't anything as amazing as Fort, where one room can lead to six others for a quick escape, or four paths converge into one room for unpredictable mayhem, but finalbattle does have its merits.

    This is not a game that requires significant details (like cannons, pendulums, and traps) to be fun. Albeit the original finalbattle was humongous and godaweful bland, I can fix both of those problems by doing a complete remake. Seriously, if you can enjoy playing Island (for god's sake) then you can definately enjoy the circular design I'm using.
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  • CopetCopet Senior
    edited 7:15AM
    I LOVED oceancalm AND marctastic sad.gif

    As for finalbattle, I think you could have chosen a better map, but at least someone is remaking maps. I'd really love to see all the old PVK maps remade.
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