A Better Map Idea

Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
edited January 2012 in Community Maps
An arena tournament, 3 arenas play out of 9 each round.
Ok I really think I'll make this one, and this is also a call for mappers out there for a possible collage map.

This map is going to be territory.
There are three arenas that are chosen randomly out of nine. (Small arenas, No bigger than the inside of the water ring in CustomBaseSurvival)
Players play through the first randomly chosen arena. When you die in a arena, you respawn in a waiting room, that allows you to look at the remaining fighters in the arena. There will be a timelimit for how long players can be in an arena, and that is between 30-45 seconds. The last team standing on an arena wins the arena, or that 'territory'. Then the next randomly chosen arena starts with all the players. The team with two arena captures, wins!
So a total of three arenas are played per round, lasting 1:30 to 2:30 each round. Now for the long round thing (2:30), would be if each team gets one arena capture, technically making it a tie, but instead if this happens there will be a "Sudden Death" type arena that will determine the winner. If my dreams came true, I would like to have 1 of 3 sudden death arenas picked random on that too.

What am I trying to accomplish?

I want to make a map where melee fighting is at a high.
I want to make the environment less repetitive.

What is the worst case scenario?

1. If nobody pitches in, I'll do what I can to make 6 arenas and 2 sudden death styled arenas myself.
2. A Team Deathmatch game mode would be better? Less waiting more playing?

Here are other things I want to add to the map.
1. In the Waiting Room, each person would be isolated in a small glass room, where they can watch monitors displaying the active arena battle, or vote for the next arena. At least half have to vote for it to take effect. I plan for the things in the glass room to be easy to preview, like the current battle and the next arena.
2. When the time limit is up in any arena, something happens that causes the arena round to end quickly, always leaving 1 last survivor or team to capture the arena.
3. Explaining the random arena thing. Round One: 1/9 arenas picked. Round Two: 1/8 arenas picked. Round Three: 1/7 arenas picked. Sudden Death arena: 1/3 picked.

So what's your thought? I say lets make this possible!!

Comments

  • LhorkanLhorkan PVKII Team, Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    That's pretty brilliant, I myself was playing with the idea of making a map that's different every time you fire it up, and this is a great way of making that possible.

    One suggestion however: I wouldn't isolate players in glass boxes (Also, monitors? How would you make that happen?), I would instead have them throw a free-for-all fighting match in the waiting room (still overlooking the arenas) so they can still have fun, and not just watch others have some.
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  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (Lhorkan @ Nov 18 2010, 07:32 AM) »
    That's pretty brilliant, I myself was playing with the idea of making a map that's different every time you fire it up, and this is a great way of making that possible.

    One suggestion however: I wouldn't isolate players in glass boxes (Also, monitors? How would you make that happen?), I would instead have them throw a free-for-all fighting match in the waiting room (still overlooking the arenas) so they can still have fun, and not just watch others have some.


    lol! That was my other suggestion!

    Totally, having them kill each other while waiting could work out, I did think about it, and might do something like that. It's a good idea.
  • skenvoskenvo senior
    edited 4:44AM
    smile.gif sounds a lot like tc hydro! And i love that map! Im for it all the way
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  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (Gen.WatsonHV @ Nov 18 2010, 11:05 AM) »
    lol! That was my other suggestion!

    Totally, having them kill each other while waiting could work out, I did think about it, and might do something like that. It's a good idea.


    Fool I told you about that when we talked the other night lol

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  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (Meian @ Nov 18 2010, 09:09 PM) »
    Fool I told you about that when we talked the other night lol

    --kokoronokawari


    Yea, yea, I just thought about it more...
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    I have a request to make for any level designers out there. Post here saying that you would like to be involved in making 1-3 arena's for this collage map.

    I would post a set of regulations that the mappers would follow, I would give them a work space and I think it would be cool if a couple of mappers got in to this.

    Arena's don't have to be crazy good, all you need to do is put your own type of style into it, and a little effort. I'll take care of the rest, I just need some differentiation, I don't want 6-9 arenas made by the same mapper...

    I'll work with you! : D
  • ZinuXZinuX Mutated Walrus Hamster Members, Beta Tester
    edited 4:44AM
    I'd love to join, but I'm busy with the application map.
    dragonattacksig04.pngrage.jpg
  • LordTrilobiteLordTrilobite Baron Grunwald disapproves. Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    Actually, people generally like repetition and familiar environments. Why do you think Island is so popular, or de_dust in Counter Strike.

    And I never liked Hyrdo in TF2, too confusing.

    Seriously, if you want different arenas, make different maps and switch between those maps.
    dragonattack_sig.jpg
  • ADRIEN BRODYADRIEN BRODY Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    Watson, if you make another custom base survival, bad things will happen. Bad, bad things.
    image
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (ADRIEN BRODY @ Nov 19 2010, 04:27 PM) »
    Watson, if you make another custom base survival, bad things will happen. Bad, bad things.


    Is this similar to Custom Base Survival?
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (LordTrilobite @ Nov 19 2010, 03:15 PM) »
    Actually, people generally like repetition and familiar environments. Why do you think Island is so popular, or de_dust in Counter Strike.

    And I never liked Hyrdo in TF2, too confusing.

    Seriously, if you want different arenas, make different maps and switch between those maps.


    Sucks that you won't be apart of this project.. : ( I bet people would look forward to your arenas!

    I know that I'll give this a chance, and see if I am able to make a lot of arenas. I simply don't like doing regular maps, I like seeing what's possible in the world of hammer.
  • Mr. UnicornMr. Unicorn Bear-O-Dactyl Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    This is absolutely brilliant. It might just be that my favorite map in the game is arena but this sounds like (if done correctly) it could be one of the best maps in the game. I would love to contribute to this, but alas I'm new to Hammer, and from what I've come to understand from my first real attempt, I'm horrible at mapping. Sign me up as an "ideas guy"?
    QUOTE (Nagzar The Zerker @ Jan 30 2011, 01:11 AM) »
    I am smoking logic.

    image
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited November 2010
    QUOTE (Sir Unicorn @ Nov 19 2010, 08:21 PM) »
    This is absolutely brilliant. It might just be that my favorite map in the game is arena but this sounds like (if done correctly) it could be one of the best maps in the game. I would love to contribute to this, but alas I'm new to Hammer, and from what I've come to understand from my first real attempt, I'm horrible at mapping. Sign me up as an "ideas guy"?


    If you want to be an 'ideas guy', you need to draw me up a blueprint of an arena. Here is the workspace you have.
  • anemoneanemone Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    no voting, random. or people vote same every time.


    and...... if only 45 seconds per area, people camp.. and people have to wait. and what if people are left battling after the time limit?

    = irritating and annoying.


    could make it... 3 arenas.... (+ the random ness)

    when you die you get into the next arena, and the battlers who are sweeet players, win the first arena and go into the second, maybe with the low hp they have acquired, or get a bonus little boost, but it is even because... maybe by the time the champions reach the next arena, all the respawned guys are half dead, but then again if they die they go onto the last.


    gived new players a chance, and old players a challenge.

    also no waiting, unless you die 3 times in a short space of time, but if you are that crap to die in the last before people leave the first arena, you would be waiting this long in any team dm.

    and if there is a draw, or something... well basically include sudden death some how.

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  • Mr. UnicornMr. Unicorn Bear-O-Dactyl Senior
    edited November 2010
    The spaces in your posts
    QUOTE (anemone @ Nov 20 2010, 06:28 AM) »
    = irritating and annoy


    Also, maybe this could be done in a way that it would be something like arenas around the world. A Caribbean arena or two, a Nordic arena, the courtyard of a castle. Things of the such.
    QUOTE (Nagzar The Zerker @ Jan 30 2011, 01:11 AM) »
    I am smoking logic.

    image
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (anemone @ Nov 20 2010, 04:28 AM) »
    no voting, random. or people vote same every time.

    At least half of the players have to vote for voting to take effect, I want this to happen.

    QUOTE
    and...... if only 45 seconds per area, people camp.. and people have to wait. and what if people are left battling after the time limit?

    = irritating and annoying.

    Small arenas and everybody sees everybody. There will be something to determine the winner after the time limit, like a small hurt trigger, and the person with the most health at the end will win.
    QUOTE
    could make it... 3 arenas.... (+ the random ness)

    Na, I want more arenas.
    QUOTE
    when you die you get into the next arena, and the battlers who are sweeet players, win the first arena and go into the second, maybe with the low hp they have acquired, or get a bonus little boost, but it is even because... maybe by the time the champions reach the next arena, all the respawned guys are half dead, but then again if they die they go onto the last.

    Either on a new arena all players will have full health and armor, or the previous winners will have full and the losers will have 50%-75% health.
    QUOTE
    and if there is a draw, or something... well basically include sudden death some how.

    I'm sorry... did you read the thread?
  • LhorkanLhorkan PVKII Team, Senior
    edited November 2010
     
    QUOTE (Gen.WatsonHV @ Nov 20 2010, 06:42 PM) »
    At least half of the players have to vote for voting to take effect, I want this to happen.


    This sounds like a lot of trouble for little reward. You would have to effectively count the amount of players in the map for it to work, which isn't all that easy IIRC. Also, the ability to vote does indeed take away the randomness of the map, as Anemone pointed out. Personally I'd not bother with it, but if it's something you really want, it's your map and you do what you want with it in the end.

    QUOTE
    There will be something to determine the winner after the time limit, like a small hurt trigger, and the person with the most health at the end will win.


    I wouldn't make a hurt trigger, because this would give high-health classes an unfair advantage. Instead, you should make a sudden death kind of event that makes the arena surface smaller, much like on the official arena map.

    Because there will be several arenas, it can't be an LTS sudden death, and can't be LTS to begin with, but it can all be done just as easily with Objective Push, but I'm sure you already thought of that yourself.  icon_pirate2.gif

    QUOTE
    I simply don't like doing regular maps, I like seeing what's possible in the world of hammer.


    You and me both! I'd love to help you out by making at least one arena, once I get back home in mid December.  icon_yarrpirate.gif
    dragonattacksig03-1.png
  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited November 2010
    QUOTE (Lhorkan @ Nov 20 2010, 11:12 AM) »
     This sounds like a lot of trouble for little reward. You would have to effectively count the amount of players in the map for it to work, which isn't all that easy IIRC.

    I already have a method for counting the players.

    QUOTE
    Also, the ability to vote does indeed take away the randomness of the map, as Anemone pointed out. Personally I'd not bother with it, but if it's something you really want, it's your map and you do what you want with it in the end.

    Ah-ha! How about this:

    At the end of an arena match, there will be 5-10 seconds before the next arena starts. (One reason for the wait is because the last person who dies in an arena has to wait the longest to respawn, and I do not think it is possible for me to change the respawn time in the map.) (So far it is looking like people who are waiting will be isolated in a small glass room*) When people are waiting for the next arena to start, they can:

    1. Watch the fight in the arena (Too bad func_monitor doesn't exist anymore, but I can use a vgui_screen entity, and also a point_camera and game_ui entity so that the players would see the arena as if they were there.)

    2. Vote to skip the upcoming map WHEN the arena round ends. At least 75% of players in the isolated glass rooms have to press the Skip button in order to skip the upcoming map, AND they can only skip once per new arena round, so they would have to deal with the 2nd randomly picked arena when skipped.

    *For the waiting room thing. So far, I am not able to come up with a solution for fighting players while waiting for the next arena to start. The reason for this is if this happens, I will not be able to teleport each individual player into their own glass room for Vote to Skip after the current arena ends. I can only divide up teams, but not individual players. And players would then have a special bar already full or almost full for the next arena round, and ALSO have less ammo AND no explosive barrel if they used it already AND if they die in the waiting room right before the next arena starts, they would be excluded from that arena round.



    QUOTE
    I wouldn't make a hurt trigger, because this would give high-health classes an unfair advantage. Instead, you should make a sudden death kind of event that makes the arena surface smaller, much like on the official arena map.

    Because there will be several arenas, it can't be an LTS sudden death, and can't be LTS to begin with, but it can all be done just as easily with Objective Push, but I'm sure you already thought of that yourself.  icon_pirate2.gif

    I am still trying to come up with a solution to determine the last team on an arena when the time runs out. I would not like to make it where when the time runs out, a sudden death appeal occurs, because I want the round to end, very quickly, without adding more time. Also imagine this: 2 enemies left in the arena, different teams, but they are griefers. They both don't hurt each other, to grief. I need something to kill one of them first, and even if the last guy alive dies a tenth of a second later, that will be enough time for the arena to be captured under that guys team.

    I actually don't know what your talking about for the Objective Push thing. I think we have different ways of accomplishing the same thing.


    And it's nice to hear that in time you would be able to help make an arena or two. Thanks! : D
    icon_agapirate.gif
  • Blood-WiperBlood-Wiper Vicious Psycho Banned
    edited 4:44AM
    Maybe you could add a player limit to each arena? and each arena would have advantages for some classes?
    Little bit banned
  • LhorkanLhorkan PVKII Team, Senior
    edited November 2010
    QUOTE (Gen.WatsonHV @ Nov 20 2010, 11:19 PM) »
    I already have a method for counting the players.


    Awesome!


    QUOTE
    A-ha! How about this:

    1. Watch the fight in the arena (Too bad func_monitor doesn't exist anymore, but I can use a vgui_screen entity, and also a point_camera and game_ui entity so that the players would see the arena as if they were there.)


    I never worked with cameras myself, but I remember BenRyde experimenting with point_cameras on one of his maps, and he only had problems with them. You can give it a shot, but I can almost guarantee that they will not work as they should. IIRC the problem was that he couldn't give the players their actual view back.

    QUOTE
    *For the waiting room thing. So far, I am not able to come up with a solution for fighting players while waiting for the next arena to start. The reason for this is if this happens, I will not be able to teleport each individual player into their own glass room for Vote to Skip after the current arena ends. I can only divide up teams, but not individual players. And players would then have a special bar already full or almost full for the next arena round, and ALSO have less ammo AND no explosive barrel if they used it already AND if they die in the waiting room right before the next arena starts, they would be excluded from that arena round.


    That's why you wouldn't teleport them, but kill them and activate new spawns in the isolated glass boxes. Since you can't spawn in a spawn place wherein a player is standing (unless there are no empty ones left, so you'll have to make sure to have more than enough cages), you only have to make the boxes the size of a player and put a spawn point in them to make it work.


    Also, the whole activating new spawns thing is what you need Objective Push for. This way you don't have to mess around with teleporters all the time!

    QUOTE
    2. Vote to skip the upcoming map WHEN the arena round ends. At least 75% of players in the isolated glass rooms have to press the Skip button in order to skip the upcoming map, AND they can only skip once per new arena round, so they would have to deal with the 2nd randomly picked arena when skipped.



    Still sounds too complicated for what it accomplishes. You can drop the entire glass room thing if you simply don't let people vote! In my opinion, the voting thing mostly just disrupts the flow of the map; I see it as 3 LTS fights, with sections of TDM in between to pass the time. I can see you really want this voting thing to happen though. tongue.gif

    QUOTE
    I am still trying to come up with a solution to determine the last team on an arena when the time runs out. I would not like to make it where when the time runs out, a sudden death appeal occurs, because I want the round to end, very quickly, without adding more time. Also imagine this: 2 enemies left in the arena, different teams, but they are griefers. They both don't hurt each other, to grief. I need something to kill one of them first, and even if the last guy alive dies a tenth of a second later, that will be enough time for the arena to be captured under that guys team.


    I don't know, the trigger_hurt solution seems kinda cheap. I definitely see your point, but having sudden deaths (they would go to their end stage faster than the final arena) for every arena would just make the entire map seem more polished to me. Before it triggers you could simply count the all the players of every team at round end though, and the team with the most living players wins. I'd be in favor of the round being a draw if no victor emerges after the SD, either awarding a point to all remaining teams, or to none at all, OR after giving the players some time to kill each other you can still do the trigger_hurt thing.

    QUOTE
    And it's nice to hear that in time you would be able to help make an arena or two. Thanks! : D
    icon_agapirate.gif


    You're most welcome, it's nice to see another mapper willing to push the boundries now that the other ones have left.  ph34r.gif
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  • Gen.WatsonHVGen.WatsonHV Senior
    edited November 2010
    QUOTE (Lhorkan @ Nov 20 2010, 03:35 PM) »
    Also, the whole activating new spawns thing is what you need Objective Push for. This way you don't have to mess around with teleporters all the time!

    I'll look into this.

    QUOTE
    Still sounds too complicated for what it accomplishes. You can drop the entire glass room thing if you simply don't let people vote! In my opinion, the voting thing mostly just disrupts the flow of the map; I see it as 3 LTS fights, with sections of TDM in between to pass the time. I can see you really want this voting thing to happen though. tongue.gif

    Ah-Ha!!!!!

    When a player dies in an arena, they respawn in a Temporary Arena. All three teams will have a safe zone in this arena, which is where they would respawn, on which only their teammates can enter. In the safe zones, there will be button to press or a place to enter that will let you see the current battle on the arena.
    When the arena battle ends and a winner is chosen, all players EXCEPT the winning survivors will be killed. Everybody will respawn in an isolated glass room, where they will see the upcoming arena, the time left until that arena starts, AND a button to press to Vote Skip that map.

    QUOTE
    I don't know, the trigger_hurt solution seems kinda cheap. I definitely see your point, but having sudden deaths (they would go to their end stage faster than the final arena) for every arena would just make the entire map seem more polished to me. Before it triggers you could simply count the all the players of every team at round end though, and the team with the most living players wins. I'd be in favor of the round being a draw if no victor emerges after the SD, either awarding a point to all remaining teams, or to none at all, OR after giving the players some time to kill each other you can still do the trigger_hurt thing.

    What I'm thinking about doing now is doing a sudden death thing after the time is up, and at the end of the sudden death, something will happen that will eventually kill everyone in the arena, which is when the winner will be chosen. That something could be a water flood, hot lava rising, very hard obstacle courses, lasers to jump, and things that are very difficult if not impossible to live through.
  • anemoneanemone Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (anemone @ Nov 20 2010, 08:58 PM) »
    no voting, random. or people vote same every time.


    and...... if only 45 seconds per area, people camp.. and people have to wait. and what if people are left battling after the time limit?

    = irritating and annoying.


    could make it... 3 arenas.... (+ the random ness)

    when you die you get into the next arena, and the battlers who are sweeet players, win the first arena and go into the second, maybe with the low hp they have acquired, or get a bonus little boost, but it is even because... maybe by the time the champions reach the next arena, all the respawned guys are half dead, but then again if they die they go onto the last.


    gived new players a chance, and old players a challenge.

    also no waiting, unless you die 3 times in a short space of time, but if you are that crap to die in the last before people leave the first arena, you would be waiting this long in any team dm.

    and if there is a draw, or something... well basically include sudden death some how.

    these are my bones, and I am wielding them




    or if you do it the waiting way, people should be able to drop chests from the sky box. while watching the battle.
    casper.s2

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  • J-coJ-co Tramp Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    Haha, this!

    Dead ones are in heaven with god and they decide to make the battle more interesting by dropping random junk
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  • GødricGødric Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    I have an ideea for one pure chaos arena.Why not make it underwater?I don't think players ever had a massive underwater battle.And the oxigen wouldn't be a problem cause it will be over by the time you health starts to drop.And another arena with destructible floor and abyss underneath.
    image
  • ZinuXZinuX Mutated Walrus Hamster Members, Beta Tester
    edited 4:44AM
    You wont be able to use ranged weapons nor parrots, which obviously is frustrating and not adding to the chaos.
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  • JollygreenJollygreen Troll Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (ADRIEN BRODY @ Nov 20 2010, 12:27 AM) »
    Watson, if you make another custom base survival, bad things will happen. Bad, bad things.


    i think i'll listen to Adrian Brody
    1pYiF.gif
  • Mr. UnicornMr. Unicorn Bear-O-Dactyl Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (Jollygreen @ Nov 22 2010, 04:39 PM) »
    i think i'll listen to Adrian Brody

    That doesn't make much sense. I think you mean "I think I'd listen to Adrian Brody"?
    QUOTE (Nagzar The Zerker @ Jan 30 2011, 01:11 AM) »
    I am smoking logic.

    image
  • anemoneanemone Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    I love battling under water, but why not just make it above water with similar physical effects?

    Um but what was I going to say. Oh....

    yes junk... that can kill!!!! :DDDDDD I want to see chests crushing the living.
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  • JollygreenJollygreen Troll Senior
    edited 4:44AM
    QUOTE (Sir Unicorn @ Nov 22 2010, 10:54 PM) »
    That doesn't make much sense. I think you mean "I think I'd listen to Adrian Brody"?


    i meant to say I WILL, man

    my choice
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