PVKII Randomizer

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Comments

  • VelociraptorVelociraptor Senior
    edited March 2010
    I'm so glad this idea got interest and someone is actually working on it. You, sir, have my respect and gratitude. I will swing by the server this evening. Although my "everning" might be sligtly different from yours due to timezones. Still I can't wait to check it out.
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    I do really enjoy the reaction of everyone that comes on for the first time.

    "What? Why do I have a spear as a pirate?"

    "How do you have a parrot as a viking?"

    "Is this some kind of a bug?"

    "Is that guy cheating?!"

    Except for Ole' Swifty, who simply said, "Ah, randomizer."
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    <!--quoteo(post=186395:date=Mar 25 2010, 09:15 PM:name=HEI
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • VelociraptorVelociraptor Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    I tried it out. It was awesome, if only a 1 vs 1 as the server was empty. Still, it feels great. The only problem so far is with the class still having their weapons initially and having random ones added to them, making sometimes up to 6 weapons per player. But that's repairable, I guess? Anyway, it doesn't take any fun away. What I was really surprised by, is the fact that you can use specials from weapons not from your class, making for a variety in strategy if you have at least two different weapons with specials. That's great.
  • edited 6:05PM
    You might want to remove all the custom maps from your server. It really scares people off to have to spend time downloading, especially people from Europe who have +200 pings.
    image
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    QUOTE (PhanracК @ Mar 26 2010, 10:35 AM) »
    You might want to remove all the custom maps from your server. It really scares people off to have to spend time downloading, especially people from Europe who have +200 pings.

    My apologies. I meant to get rid of stairwell last night. I'll take care of it when I get some remote access time later.
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    QUOTE (Velociraptor @ Mar 26 2010, 10:16 AM) »
    I tried it out. It was awesome, if only a 1 vs 1 as the server was empty. Still, it feels great. The only problem so far is with the class still having their weapons initially and having random ones added to them, making sometimes up to 6 weapons per player. But that's repairable, I guess? Anyway, it doesn't take any fun away. What I was really surprised by, is the fact that you can use specials from weapons not from your class, making for a variety in strategy if you have at least two different weapons with specials. That's great.

    Glad to hear that you enjoyed it. The initial weapons that the classes start with is one of the biggest problems that I'm facing. The game doesn't behave very nicely when I try to remove them from the player. I've got a few new ideas to try out later. I like ending up with a really big pile of weapons, but having the class weapons makes it way too predictable.

    I'm thinking that I may need to change the way that it selects your random weapons to intentionally give players two special-enabled weapons.

    Note to self, these weapons have special attacks:

    weapon_cutlass
    weapon_blunderbuss
    weapon_bigaxe
    weapon_axesword
    weapon_vikingshield
    weapon_spear
    weapon_twosword
    weapon_longbow
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    I got some information that should fix my issues regarding initial class weapons and giving ammo for the ranged weapons.
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • Ole' SwiftyOle' Swifty Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    Hey yeah it was great fun, nice for a change.


    I am wondering when you normally play, might hit you up later tonight.

    I am kinda liking that you start off with no ammo for ranged weapons, gives you a slight disadvantage for not being that class.

    Anyway keep up the good work, look forward to adding the server to my favorites.
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited March 2010
    QUOTE (Ole' Swifty @ Mar 26 2010, 01:47 PM) »
    I am wondering when you normally play, might hit you up later tonight.

    I am kinda liking that you start off with no ammo for ranged weapons, gives you a slight disadvantage for not being that class.

    Weekdays between 5p-11p (Pacific; GMT -8) is my gaming/testing window. Weekends at random times.

    Maybe I'll add an option to limit starting ammo for ranged weapons. The biggest problem with making it the default is when the map doesn't have any ammo packs (arena). Though I suppose a dedicated server operator could get around that by adding ammo entities. It would definitely draw the campers into close combat.
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    Goals for this evening:
    Fix ammo
    Removal of default weapons
    Rudimentary random class support

    Goals for tomorrow:
    Wrap up random class support
    Beta 1.0 release for other server operators

    Thanks ahead of time to play-tester patience. Map changes happen a little too often when I'm fiddling with things. Though it usually works out that people don't start joining until it's relatively stable.
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • SquirrelSquirrel Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    I'll try to stop by if the time is right. Weekday testing times aren't very adapted for us Europeans (GMT +1).
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    QUOTE (ZombieSquirrel @ Mar 26 2010, 02:45 PM) »
    I'll try to stop by if the time is right. Weekday testing times aren't very adapted for us Europeans (GMT +1).

    Oof. Yeah, the time difference is a little rough.

    I should be on for a bit on Saturday morning working on the classes, so that's an opportunity. Hopefully once I get the beta out then you'll see it on a couple of servers and be able to test it a little closer to home. I don't even know if any server ops are going to want to run it. We'll see.

    At this point the plan is to make the source available. There's currently a cvar controlling a fairly extensive amount of server logging and debugging so that I can track what the logic is doing most of the time. I may strip all of that out for the release to keep it clean and simple.
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    QUOTE (MadKat @ Mar 26 2010, 07:04 AM) »
    I wonder if I could force players to drop their weapons then remove the weapon entities. Hrm.


    One way I tried it was (in hammer) with a custom map that has brush triggers around spawn, and when you spawn it removes all of the guns from the map. This makes serious lag and doesn't even work half the time, not to mention makes the map file 5 times as big for some reason
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    <!--quoteo(post=186484:date=Mar 26 2010, 06:11 PM:name=HEI
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    Okay, if anyone is in your server next time I play I'll probably swing by
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited March 2010
    Okay, removal of items working beautifully. Giving of ammo working just as well. Onward to classes.
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    First rollout of random classes caused some crashes. Now it's operating smoothly. Though it is really tough to tell who is on what team.
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    Plugin running stable all evening. Looks like I need to add some kind of identifier to players so you know who is on what team. Otherwise the chaos is just a little much.
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • VelociraptorVelociraptor Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    Tried it out again today, to see all the progress. Though alone, cause no one seems to play when I do (screw timezones). I must say the work is impressive. I salute you. Really. Now about the random classes. I've been thinking- is the random class scramble needed at all? I mean, when I made the suggestion, that, say, in tf2 every player spawns with random classes, well in tf2 it actually has impact on the gameplay. A large one too, cause different classes are REALLY different even in their basic terms of gameplay, and most got unique features, like engineers can build stuff, spies can be invisible, medics can self-heal, etc. Now in PVK classes do have a difference, however minor, compared to that one of TF2. It's basicly just run speed and armor-health values. Seeing as the classes without weapons seem overall balanced to me -hk loses speed at the benefit of his armor, skirmisher goes the other way around, other classes are more or less equal in these terms. The only one that stands out is probably the berserker, having good speed AND health which in game is balanced out by his lack of shield and ranged weapons, so in randomizer he could end up overpowered. Then again this is RANDOMizer, equality is not necesary. So anyway, out of all this novel I just wrote- what I suggest is (if it's doable) to only make class scrambles per team. You know, pirates are only randomized between captain and skirmisher, knights between archer and hk and vikings between huscarl, gestir and zerker (which would also kind of balance the advantage of the last, as you get only 33,33 percent chance to end up as zerker while on vikings). So yeah, how about that? It would reduce the chaos to a reasonable and yet still fun level (random weapons are more than enough). Would also save you the trouble of finding a way to identify the different classes for different teams.
    Well I guess that's about it. The script is working very well and I am very happy that someone took notice in this suggestion and made it reality, cause I never would have managed it myself. Big thanks to you.
    Oh yeah, there is one problem with all this. I lag like hell on american servers. But hey, one can't hope for everything to turn out well, eh?
  • MadKatMadKat Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    What you described is kind of how it was working for a while. What all of the play testers noticed is that the skirmisher becomes WAY overpowered when the classes aren't randomized. If he gets the right weapon load-out, his move speed gives him complete control of small combat. Skirmisher with a HK sword + blunderbuss + bow. Throw in a shielded weapon for good measure. It's just ouch.

    With all of the classes completely randomized you can't pick the skirmisher (like most people did) and it gives everyone an equal chance to spawn as him. Your suggestion is noted, however. Server owners will already have the option to turn off class randomization (and leave weapons in-tact) so maybe I could implement some sort of inter-team only class randomizing.
    Programmer, Swashbuckler
    Author of PVKII Randomizer
    Author of PVKII WeaponsMaster
  • VelociraptorVelociraptor Senior
    edited 6:05PM
    Well had my first play test with some actual people. Gotta say, all is working perfectly, if only navigation is a little hard so far, but not impossible. The player name highlights as you target someone are good at picking out who to attack and who- not. Only problem is remembering who YOU are, but once you get used to it- it ain't much of a problem. Another strange thing- are those kegs unlimited? That should definetly be solved, or we'll have keg spams in no time. Everything else is just awesome. Exept of course for my lag issue. Your sniping my ass in Fort was quite annoying, cause I can't exactly retaliate with ranged weapons effectively. Doesn't matter.
    What's more to say... this plug in is total madness. And I'll be damned if it ain't fun.
  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited March 2010
    If you're doing random classes, it might work really well to do LTS maps but every man for themselves and last MAN standing
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