Combat in 2.3

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Comments

  • PhoBoTaiPhoBoTai Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    QUOTE (Lord Scrotum @ Jun 9 2009, 03:32 PM) »
    Sorry if this is a stoopid question but...

    If you automatically block in the direction your nearest opponent is attacking, then what's the point of choosing an attack direction in the first place?

    and how do you ever block in the wrong direction and get a small stun, if you don't choose the block direction any more? unsure.gif


    Yeah that's what I was thinking too, wth??? could be something that they haven't make clear of, but good point...
    And due the new combat system, there's no point of normal attacking because everyone now have "block HAX"...so don't walk outta spawn without your CHARGE gear kids...

    QUOTE (lion989 @ Jun 11 2009, 05:50 PM) »
    yeah hate to sound like a negative nancy, but if you guys really do DESTROY the amazing combat system that you currently have, you wont see me in game. Damn near every PVK2 player i have spoken to agrees with me.....
    its a DAMN shame that ur gonna ruin the incredible system you already had. 2.2 is the best first person melee game available, and i promise you ill probably never open 2.3 :-/.

    "noob-friendly" translates to "bad game" for MOST PCgamers........


    Hum... I don't know dude, Let's see now *launching PVKII 2.2*...oh server list showing only 1 solely 24/7 island servers that still active. WOAH...that pretty bad....
  • BowrrlBowrrl Senior
    edited June 2009
    QUOTE
    NOOO! I'M GOOD AT STARING CONTESTS AND NOT ATTACKING UNTIL I PP THE ENEMY. HOW CAN I BE GOOD IF THERE'S A CHANCE OF BEING HIT BACK!?!?!!?!11one1!


    You see Whiner, the new combat system takes the same amount of skill as the current system does because all you did anyway is hold charge until the other guy swings then block in that direction mid-charge and refuse to attack unless those conditions were met. Honestly, having a computer do that for you doesn't take skill away from, well.... squat...

    The Devs are making it so you fight by being offensive and can avoid damage some of the time through blocking. Which is how it should be and is infinitely better than the winner depending on who was the most defensive.

    QUOTE
    BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF RISK VS REWARD, HOW IT MAKES GAMES LIVELY AND FUN AND HOW PERFECT PARRY WHORING MURDERS IT!


    I have played many games populated by people with your disability but alas I don't know how to fix it. I can explain to you however that there is no risk involved in parry-whoring so there should be no reward and the best way of accomplishing this is taking it out completely. The rest you will come to understand in time.

    QUOTE
    YOUR LEAVING? BUT WHY? YOU HAVE HELPED ME UNDERSTAND SO MUCH ABOUT WHY THE NEW COMBAT SYSTEM IS AWESOME AND WORKS SO MUCH BETTER. YOU CANT LEAVE ME NOW!


    Its ok forum Whiner... I may be leaving... but I will always be... inside you. *Fly's away gracefully as slow heartwarming music comes into earshot and a single tear rolls down Whiner's face*

    QUOTE
    ILL NEVAR FORGET U!!!!!!!
  • CrazytalkCrazytalk Terminator PVKII Team
    edited June 2009
    Just a heads up to those still looking to flame on about a system they haven't tried yet.

    Many of the testers had a lot of complaints when we first decided to implement the new system. After we implemented it and they got a chance to try it, their complaints calmed down and we've since tweaked it even further. These days they enjoy it more-so than the 2.2 system.

    So keep that in mind when you're writing a post about how awful 2.3 is going to be and how you're never going to play it. If you're good at 2.2 you're likely going to get used to the 2.3 system within a few rounds. Odds are you're going to try it, get used to it, realize it's not what you thought (you're not going to get owned by new players) then realize how embarrassing your old posts make you look.

    Of course this is the internet and you're all anonymous, but in your heart you'll know just how ridiculous you were.

    badass.jpg

  • PhoBoTaiPhoBoTai Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    QUOTE (Crazytalk @ Jun 11 2009, 11:04 PM) »
    Just a heads up to those still looking to flame on about a system they haven't tried yet.

    Many of the testers had a lot of complaints when we first decided to implement the new system. After we implemented it and they got a chance to try it, their complaints calmed down and we've since tweaked it even further. These days they enjoy it more-so than the 2.2 system.

    So keep that in mind when you're writing a post about how awful 2.3 is going to be and how you're never going to play it. If you're good at 2.2 you're likely going to get used to the 2.2 system within a few rounds. Odds are you're going to try it, get used to it, realize it's not what you thought (you're not going to get owned by new players) then realize how embarrassing your old posts make you look.

    Of course this is the internet and you're all anonymous, but in your heart you'll know just how ridiculous you were.

    Mind not such arrogance. Their ignorance blind them from seeing the hard works and time that you guys sacrifices for this mod, at least have manners give some gratitude.

    A question though...according to the news feed, will directional blocking still maneuverable? does it still exist? just want to clarify the confusion
  • RootJackRootJack Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    It seems the term "noob friendly" gets bandied about, but to me it seems more like fine tuning and optimizing. It at least sounds like a decent combat balancing mechanic with a more a natural (read: less forced) feel. I look forward to trying it out.

    Oh, and if anyone is interested, I found a german news post about this news post.
    http://www.hlportal.de/?site=news&do=s...6933&page=1
    RootJack, Pirate Energy Drink. Fight Scurvy!
    Orange flavored Root Beer with Vanilla, Guarana,
    a full daily dose of Vitamin C, and lots of Caffeine.
    : RootJack + Facebook : : SteamJack + Facebook :
    >> Proud affiliate of Pirates, Vikings & Knights II <<
  • Wee_Free_ManWee_Free_Man Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    YYYYYAAAYYYY!!!!!
    Man I've been checking this space for ages.
    I'll keep optimistic for this new combat style if it encourages more attacking. I especially like the idea of the full power attack breaking the Perfect Parry;
    Golden! Should have had it ages ago.

    Thanks for the news update dudes!
  • Lord ScrotumLord Scrotum Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    QUOTE (Crazytalk @ Jun 12 2009, 05:04 AM) »
    Just a heads up to those still looking to flame on about a system they haven't tried yet.


    yow, hope you don't think that's what I was doing. I was saying 'so how does this work exactly because I don't get this part, sorry if it's a stupid question'.

    I trust you guys to come up with something very cool but I can't actually figure out how the new system works.
  • Lord ScrotumLord Scrotum Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    Actually I think I get it.

    If you hold the block button, you block in the direction your nearest opponent is attacking, so if he comes at you with the axe from above you block up. But if you just keep holding the block, you'll carry on blocking up even if he switches to a different attack direction, right? The blocking doesn't change direction unless you let go and block again?
  • SyndromESyndromE Senior
    edited June 2009
    seems logical that "The blocking doesn't change direction unless you let go and block again"...

    so, I guess, you can actually stand still, pressing block button every time the opponent swings at you.
    as long as he doesn't lay down several full charge attacks on ya, you don't even NEED a keyboard to survive melee attacks...
    utilizing counter attacks you could actually WIN a fight without using a keyboard ? meh...

    you hate "parrywhores" ? no problem, you are ALL "parrywhores" now ! congrats.
  • HarliefHarlief Baby get Shakey after school Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    QUOTE (SyndromE @ Jun 13 2009, 12:01 AM) »
    you hate "parrywhores" ? no problem, you are ALL "parrywhores" now ! congrats.

    Was it Justin Timberlake who sung "cry me a river"?
    Parry-whoring is ineffective, because a fully charged attack breaks through blocks, resulting in so called parry whores sustaining damage without dealing it out. Can you see how this discourages parry-whoring by making it ineffective?
    imageimage
  • PhoBoTaiPhoBoTai Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    QUOTE (Harlief @ Jun 12 2009, 08:15 AM) »
    Was it Justin Timberlake who sung "cry me a river"?
    Parry-whoring is ineffective, because a fully charged attack breaks through blocks, resulting in so called parry whores sustaining damage without dealing it out. Can you see how this discourages parry-whoring by making it ineffective?

    Okay, since now everyone have "block hax" the chance of getting Perfect Parry are 100% which discourage players to use normal attack, and encourage players to use charge attack which you don't see quite often in 2.2...lets hope that turn out for the better.
    The only situation I could think of that normal attacking become necessary is when your opponents charging his attack; there's no point in blocking cause you still take dmg, so the only sensible thing to do is normal attack or STAB THE SHIT OUT OF HIM.
    But then later on people learn of this and everytime you try to normal attack someone, he/she will fake charging and block your attack, and then.......um...did it just become a stalemate?(I'm not flaming, just bringing out idea to discuss)
  • ZinuXZinuX Mutated Walrus Hamster Members, Beta Tester
    edited 11:47AM
    Question: Is the counter-attack still in the system?
    Because if it's not there would be another disadvantage of blocking (which is good). I think it would be perfect if you don't have the counter-attack. So blocking would only be about saving your own ass instead of saving your ass and then punishing your oponent. That's what attacking is for.
    dragonattacksig04.pngrage.jpg
  • CrackaPollyCrackaPolly PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited June 2009
    What people don't understand I think is Perfect Parry is essentially no more anyways. There is no more extreme stun, and so block useful purely to absorb damage. Someone who is constant blocking will be destroyed by the person who is on the offensive because the offensive can keep attacks up even when blocked, and can full charge attack to negate the block absorption as well as to give a small stun to the blocker. So in essence block is now secondary to attacks unlike 2.2 where all fights opened with blocks and staring contests because of how powerful block was.

    edit: and there are still counter-attacks.
  • SyndromESyndromE Senior
    edited June 2009
    you say PP is essentially no more... though, not only PP is now supposedly easier than ever, it also assures a counter-attack, every single time you block,
    as long as no full charge attack has been in place, of course.
    so even with no stun at all, you gonna counter attack the opponent after almost every single "auto-block".
    how can you say constant blocking will be destroyed - doesn't counter attack deal more damage than PP would not absorb ?
    PP + CA is, say, 80% guaranteed on a single auto-block (assuming 20% of opposite attacks are fully charged, breaking the PP to begin with)
    and I know not every CA is going to hit since stun is short, but if mastered - you would force the opponents to always full charge on you else they are doomed.

    which leads me to the following picture where everybody always run around charging full attacks, fearing PP+CA success rate.
    I still don't get the fun of it... but will likely have to live with it / know it better when it comes out.
  • PhoBoTaiPhoBoTai Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    QUOTE (SyndromE @ Jun 12 2009, 07:30 PM) »
    you say PP is essentially no more... though, not only PP is now supposedly easier than ever, it also assures a counter-attack, every single time you block,
    as long as no full charge attack has been in place, of course.

    so even with no stun at all, you gonna counter attack the opponent after almost every single "auto-block".
    how can you say constant blocking will be destroyed - doesn't counter attack deal more damage than PP would not absorb ?

    PP + CA is like 80% guaranteed on a single auto-block (assuming 20% of attacks are fully charged, breaking the PP to begin with)
    and I know not every CA is going to hit since stun is short, but if mastered - you would force the opponents to always full charge on you else they are doomed.

    I see a picture where everybody always run around charging full attacks, fearing PP+CA success rate.
    I still don't get it... but will likely have to live with it / know it better when it comes out.

    That because you don't know if Perfect Parry still exist, you don't know if CA still active, the developer haven't made clear of everything yet...so calm the F down. I also have some doubt about this new system, is it going to be better? IDK but it sure beat w/e the heck system we having right now. I can't blame or make any statements right now, because of the lack of information...so don't cry now, cause by the time 2.3 comes out you'll drown in your own tears.
  • SyndromESyndromE Senior
    edited June 2009
    don't you give me this kind of attitude, boy. you obviously did not understand that Perfect Parry WILL exist, semi-automatic, breakable, with reduced stun period.

    can't you read ? CrackaPolly just said:
    QUOTE
    edit: and there are still counter-attacks.

    and when do we use counter-attacks?... exactly - right after the "automatic" perfect parry icon_whistling.gif

    p.s: im not here to flame nor bitch. just trying to understand how it works, and im allowed to express my feelings about, at least, what I DO understand.
  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited June 2009
    Pssh. I fully charge about half of my hits anyway, and since I play lots of other games this new update will mean that I can manage to play pvk semi-competently without it being the ONLY game I play. I really appreciate the good work, dev team. icon_agapirate.gif icon_viking2.gif
  • SyndromESyndromE Senior
    edited June 2009
    fully charging about half of your hits, might as well translate to being counter attacked on the other half.
    and yea, me too pretty much mastered HK full charge + full arc utilization (how else would I achieve special after every 2 hits?)
    but its not about me, its about all of us fully charging constantly for the sake of our lives... smile.gif and when we do manage it, blocking becomes negative & irrelevant.

    you see my point ? its ironic, as the powerful semi-auto PP+CA might eventually drive the community to always full charge, till blocking is dropped for good.
    and there's no real melee without blocking. it's just my personal vision, for what its worth.
  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    :lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Heavy knight... try Huscarl.
  • PhoBoTaiPhoBoTai Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    QUOTE (SyndromE @ Jun 12 2009, 08:04 PM) »
    don't you give me this kind of attitude, boy. you obviously did not understand that Perfect Parry WILL exist, semi-automatic, breakable, with reduced stun period.

    can't you read ? CrackaPolly just said:

    and when do we use counter-attacks?... exactly - right after the "automatic" perfect parry icon_whistling.gif

    p.s: im not here to flame nor bitch. just trying to understand how it works, and im allowed to express my feelings about, at least, what I DO understand.

    Judging from the way you talk I don't think you very mature.

    Did you even look at your other post?
    QUOTE (SyndromE @ Jun 11 2009, 06:26 PM) »
    Lord Scrotum and lion989 nailed it. this smells like the end to me... balancing my hard earned skills with thy noobies ? is such a deal breaker dude. icon_stabhead.gif

    sure ill give it a try, but I won't deny I've got some really bad taste in my mouth now. dry.gif hopefully it turns out good enough so I can just keep playing this jewel.
    now excuse me I need to have some long 2.2 sessions, till you make it a single button defense kind of game, thus becoming a single button attack as well.
    Jesus Christ ! how could you ?! image

    Yeah...that's definitely sound like someone who try to "understand" things....
  • ZinuXZinuX Mutated Walrus Hamster Members, Beta Tester
    edited 11:47AM
    We just have to wait and see how the system will really work.

    P.S. It should be more clear for us, if we could see gameplay footage of it.
    dragonattacksig04.pngrage.jpg
  • lillemakkenlillemakken Senior, senior
    edited 11:47AM
    QUOTE
    Sorry if this is a stoopid question but...

    If you automatically block in the direction your nearest opponent is attacking, then what's the point of choosing an attack direction in the first place?

    and how do you ever block in the wrong direction and get a small stun, if you don't choose the block direction any more? unsure.gif

    This post has been edited by Lord Scrotum: Jun 9 2009, 11:06 PM






    He have a really good point. Why would you choose another block direction than the right one when the enemy attacks you? No one would. They could try blocking manually, but they only see that there already is a "auto-PP" button for that. I think players like myself, TheManOfWar, 123, Venga, THIEF, etc, etc, etc. that have mastered the Perfect Parry and other techniques to jump away from the enemy will get "Nerfed". I will of course understand more once the patch is out, but from Crazytalk's post... I have a bad feeling about this.

    You guys must also understand that "Noobs, Newbies" are new players. They sort of 'fear' the "Bunny-hopping" spinning Heavy Knight master. As all the other newbies before them, they will hold BLOCK the most of the time because they are scared they will die too easily. No problem, just hold block and you will be just fine. ( I know they have to release the block after each direction but rolleyes.gif )

    I think the next patch will lower the skill lever of the good players out there in the community. But also help the 'noobs'. I think all the pro players will do next is to keep spinning in front of the noob and change directions like before until they are sure the noob doesn't hold the right block direction.




    QUOTE
    seems logical that "The blocking doesn't change direction unless you let go and block again"...

    so, I guess, you can actually stand still, pressing block button every time the opponent swings at you.
    as long as he doesn't lay down several full charge attacks on ya, you don't even NEED a keyboard to survive melee attacks...
    utilizing counter attacks you could actually WIN a fight without using a keyboard ? meh...

    you hate "parrywhores" ? no problem, you are ALL "parrywhores" now ! congrats.

    This post has been edited by SyndromE: Yesterday, 11:11 AM


    Well said. Made me laugh that last sentence about "Parry-whores" So.. Damn.. True. icon_knightsofni.gif
    According to pvkii.com/forums,
    - Reaching enemies beyond your weapon model isn't a problem(you're just bad at dodging!)
    - Archer isn't overpowered
    - Higher post count is equivalent to higher skill, experience and knowledge in-game
  • PhoBoTaiPhoBoTai Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    I don't know if 2.3 change for the better or for worse, but surely I do not want to stay as 2.2.

    If 2.2 system was so good, then why is it only 1 server remain active(and its a 24/7). I'm not a noob, I know how to break parry whore, but I can't stand playing a game with just this much players that is way too boring. So if you think 2.3 going to be bad, 2.2 is at its worst right now.
  • JervanJervan Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    Does parrying counter attacks work?
  • eV1L JackeV1L Jack Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    really skeptical about the new blocking system, i fear that there wont be any skill neccessary anymore making it plain as two players just stabbing each other without moving and the one with the stronger waepon wins....hmm =(
  • ZinuXZinuX Mutated Walrus Hamster Members, Beta Tester
    edited 11:47AM
    I'm really not sceptical about the Blockingsystem, but I do want to know how it works.
    This new system isn't suposed to let defender have the upper hand above the aggressor. That's why 2.2's system is so abusive, the blocking enables you to crush your enemies, instead of attack.

    Besides just ask yourself: What would you do in a swordfight? Would you attack? Or wait until your opponent strikes and then trying to block/parry, and risk being hit?
    I'd go for attack, because you don't get a sword swinging towards you...

    P.S. Yes, you can say, what if the opponent has
    dragonattacksig04.pngrage.jpg
  • PhoBoTaiPhoBoTai Senior
    edited June 2009
    QUOTE (ZinuX @ Jun 13 2009, 03:49 PM) »
    I'm really not sceptical about the Blockingsystem, but I do want to know how it works.
    This new system isn't suposed to let defender have the upper hand above the aggressor. That's why 2.2's system is so abusive, the blocking enables you to crush your enemies, instead of attack.

    Besides just ask yourself: What would you do in a swordfight? Would you attack? Or wait until your opponent strikes and then trying to block/parry, and risk being hit?
    I'd go for attack, because you don't get a sword swinging towards you...

    P.S. Yes, you can say, what if the opponent has
  • Teh_SuxTeh_Sux Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    Actually, if it needed to be realistic, the game shouldn't exist,. Pirates, vikings and knights never met eachother ever.
    I have learned my lesson at last and may have a real forum signature thanks to the kind mercy of Bingo Bango
  • ZinuXZinuX Mutated Walrus Hamster Members, Beta Tester
    edited 11:47AM
    Man, I wasn't even talking about realism, but the abusive blockingsystem which isnt balanced.
    Sorry, if that wasn't clear with that question.
    dragonattacksig04.pngrage.jpg
  • PhoBoTaiPhoBoTai Senior
    edited 11:47AM
    QUOTE (ZinuX @ Jun 14 2009, 02:07 AM) »
    Man, I wasn't even talking about realism, but the abusive blockingsystem which isnt balanced.
    Sorry, if that wasn't clear with that question.

    I'm not trying to offend anybody but you did mention about a real sword fight though
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