Knight Lord Development

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Comments

  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    Thanks Colonel, will be sure to include those as well at next update

    10am here, gonna get some shut eye before work will update again either tonight or tomorrow morn/noon. Will read any more critiques when I'm at work later, take care :)
  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited 11:34PM
    Hnnnnnng that shield looks badass.

    Mod to place the HK's shield with that when? lol
    76561198022443233.png
    Gallery of Rage
    OnqKl5B.jpg
    8ICrnFR.png :wub:
    rYEKvgb.jpg
    He1WpjQ.png <- lts_skypirates fun
    d1vRvor.png
    TudA52z.png
    8ABWxKM.jpg
  • Links121995Links121995 Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited May 2015

    @Links

    "Y'all forgot to edit out a portion of the lion's mouth"? Are you seriously telling me what I DID or DID NOT forget to edit out on my own 3d model?

    In regards to the lack of rope, I removed it after discovering none of the characters have one. They are just "magically" attached to the back. It's a gameplay/rigging/animation decision

    I don't understand what you mean by "conductive to day one editing"


    Everywhere else, the lion symbol has a clearly defined mouth. Given that you put a lion symbol on the Lord, I assumed you were trying to match the recurring lion symbol on the flags, HUD icons, signs, and the Heavy Knight. I have worked with the lion symbol (specifically the spray paint image) in the past, and have found that the background of the mouth area tends to become the foreground when certain effects are applied.
    Lions_zps8n5lqyzz.jpg


    I am fully aware of how and why weapons magically magnetize to their associated classes. I said that the lack of rope/strap escaped my notice until I looked closely, meaning that the lack of rope isn't so jarring as to immediately draw attention to itself, which is a good thing.

    "Conductive" is not the word I used. "Conducive" means that a thing is good for/supports/facilitates/enables another thing. I will reskin the texture on the day I get my hands on it so I can add it to my Black Knights and Faceless Knights reskin packs. I was trying to tell you that the way you've laid the texture map out will make that extremely easy. However, if you leave the lion symbol the way it is, there will be some editing involved as well.

    If I thought this texture was one day's work, I would be extremely impressed.
    If I thought it were an awful texture, I'd have said so, in no uncertain terms, several days ago.
    8gQi4T5.png
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited 11:34PM
    @Links

    The symbol you used is different in style to the symbol I used. The one I used had a mouth area but was very tiny and between the glare of the shield, the normal map, the small mouth area got lost. Please understand it wasn't your critique that rubbed me incorrectly, it's presuming I forgot and not assuming or asking if it was my intention or speculating other possibilities. You don't "tell" a fellow artist what he or she forgot or what he needs to do, you suggest or inquire.

    As for the other comments, I apologize for the misunderstanding as I was predisposed by your previous statement and misread/interpreted them.
  • DisturvingDisturving Senior
    edited 11:34PM
    Hello Mr Davis - You certainly said that the model was close to final, but is the texture close to final too?
    The reason why my writing here is so formal is that people inevitably get annoyed at my writing, so sticking to the rules of formal writing is my attempt to avoid people taking me the wrong way and getting annoyed.
    Complaining and expressing disagreement and arguing are very good things to do.
    If something written by me here does not look formal, it may be because I tried to make it look better than it could were it formal, or it might be that it seems all right to me without it being formal.
  • Assigir The NordAssigir The Nord PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited 11:34PM
    Is the lion symbol suppose to look like it does now? I presume it will look more like the one the heavy knight have/ typical embroidery.
    I took the liberty to make this embroidered lion that you could use if you wish, the outline should be pretty similar to the one on the surcoat.
    LionHerald01.png
    <3 kegs! :3
  • NiveNive Beta Tester
    edited 11:34PM
    I noticed that the tip of the lion's tail on his tunic is overlayed on the bit of cloth that dangles from the slit by his shoulder as if the lion was dyed after said slit was slit.
    The same goes for a bit of his mane, but I'd imagine it'd be yellow there anyways.
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    @Colonel

    Adding the necklace is putting me above 10k polys, how much wiggle room do I have? I can make it more like a pendant rather than a necklace, would cut down on the cost, but just wondering what room I have in the budget
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    Thanks Assigir, looks great, would definitely prefer using that, very much appreciated :)
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited 11:34PM
    @Disturving

    I plan to adjust the boots to have more wrinkles at the ankle, maybe more gold trim. I plan to put a necklace on him, that he has on his concept as well.

    It's close to final but would appreciate any suggestions you may have.
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited 11:34PM
    @Nive - Thank you for bringing that to my notice, that got passed me. I'll be replacing the emblem with Assigir's embroidered emblem and will watch out for that this time around. Thanks buddy
  • edited 11:34PM
    OMG this looks great,I have been playing this great game for such a long time.I am just interasted will this model be avaiable in the game,without needing of me to put it in etc..C/:PROGRAM FILES/VALE/STEAMAPPS/.....Will it update automaticlly and will it be a new class in the game?

















    P.S your game is great
  • Ukyo KuonjiUkyo Kuonji Captain Main Senior
    edited 11:34PM

    will it be a new class in the game?

    Yes.
    76561198022443233.png
    Gallery of Rage
    OnqKl5B.jpg
    8ICrnFR.png :wub:
    rYEKvgb.jpg
    He1WpjQ.png <- lts_skypirates fun
    d1vRvor.png
    TudA52z.png
    8ABWxKM.jpg
  • NiveNive Beta Tester
    edited 11:34PM
    For the necklace, you can probably get away with just making it a texture like the belt.

    Consider adding a mugshot the next time you post an update. It's pretty hard to discern his facial detail in the full body renderings you've posted thus far.
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited 11:34PM
    Yay or Nay on Amulet? Keep in mind not grunge treatment but, I'm wondering if the amulet is even necessary or even makes sense for someone to carry into a battle. I know it's in the concept... but... I'll let you all decide. The lion emblem hasn't been swapped yet.

    11103095_959611280756198_3236698896145060321_o.jpg11262227_959611277422865_4877891580548027709_o.jpg
  • schatzmeisterschatzmeister PVKII Team, Beta Tester
    edited 11:34PM
    The Swaglord returneth! I not a fan I must say. It sits right on that lion, so you can't fully see him and this kind of jewelry fits more to civilian outfits.

    Will Turner: You didn't beat me. You ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you.
    Jack Sparrow: That's not much incentive for me to fight fair, then, is it?

  • NiveNive Beta Tester
    edited May 2015
    I'm torn. On one hand, it makes him seem a little less "empty", and a necklace of such heft makes him feel more important.
    But on the other, it's way too bulky. Like Schatzmeister says, it overlaps the lion, which I think could be moved down slightly in response.
    Still, I think if he were to have a necklace at all, it'd be better off being more refined and reserved than this. A fancy pendant with a thin gold chain should suffice.

    Is that a scar on his face? Or a recent wound or something? His face seems more tarnished and dirty than necessary, to be honest.
    Normally that wouldn't be a problem, but when thine Lord's face is more unkempt than Lowly Sir Archer or Arrogant Sir Frency, either Lord doesn't care, or Lord is more busy than his subordinates.
    Both of which are nigh unbecoming of our Lordship.
  • Chedda CheezChedda Cheez Senior
    edited May 2015
    I think the amulet adds a nice extra touch of personality. Makes sense enough to me that a Lord carries some finery into battle. Show off his wealth a bit, you know?
    Though from a logical standpoint, bein' all blinged out would probably draw attention to you as someone of status, but hey, a Lord does what he wants (for the most part).

    Though I feel that with this addition it may be worth considering turning the crown a similar color, or maybe just the piece on the front. Or perhaps everything but that front piece.
    Good for stylin' on his enemies even more. :emot-awesome:

    And Nive, I wouldn't think it unbecoming of a leader to look battle-hardened, to put a positive spin on it. Looks like he's survived a lot, and that could very well be inspiring to his fellows.
    Welcome to Cheez's PVKII Funtime Class!
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  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    That's the thing, I had him have a crown before but was educated that a Lord isn't a "king" or "kingly" Lord is like a governor. In those days with France invasion of England, Scotland's invasion of England, even Lords fought as the city/castles were being besieged. Instead of a crown I gave him a less flamboyant headpiece and had "Knight Captain" in my mind during his creation of making him look hardened but also prestigious. I am torn. I do agree it adds more to him, but also it is a bit flashy, kinda like a bullseye on the battlefield. Could make it smaller, but risk making it look less Medal like showing status and title and more jewelry like.

    Was told by a friend it makes him more distinguished, so more torn than ever. So another question is raised, is seeing the lion's head so important? I could test making it smaller and see how that looks as well, but as I mentioned regarding my concerns about doing that
  • &#585;&#9678;&#8469;&#585;&#9678;&#8469; Beta Tester
    edited 11:34PM
    I think he needs the amulet he is a Lord after all, but maybe just make it smaller so it fits just on the chainmail, and not where the lion is.
  • NiveNive Beta Tester
    edited May 2015
    Seeing the lion's head is not that important. The HK's lion has a bit obscured by a leather strap, and the top of the Archer's cross is obscured by his cowl.
    As long as it being a lion is still obvious, it shouldn't really matter regardless of how much of which parts might be obscured.
  • ColonelColonel Finger Lickin' Good PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    Weapons will be coded onto the model by artist placed attachments as separate models, so they shouldn't affect the poly count. Are you including those into your calculations? That should give you some more wiggle room. Perhaps make it an addition to the texture?

    There also seems to be a defining crest/ cloth of some sorts underneath the necklace, have you thought of including that? http://www.pvkii.com...rtwork/lord.jpg

    Curious, how would the lord look with a predominately white colour theme similar to the archer?

    xq0LCrG.png
    Everything has its beginning, hop aboard the grogboat!  
    Colonel: Co-Lead | Level Designer

  • Assigir The NordAssigir The Nord PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited 11:34PM
    How about something along these lines: Surcoat with a more distinguishing coat of arms, and more fleur de lis in general.
    LordSuggestion2.jpg
    <3 kegs! :3
  • schatzmeisterschatzmeister PVKII Team, Beta Tester
    edited 11:34PM
    I must say, that looks splendid!

    Will Turner: You didn't beat me. You ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you.
    Jack Sparrow: That's not much incentive for me to fight fair, then, is it?

  • &#585;&#9678;&#8469;&#585;&#9678;&#8469; Beta Tester
    edited 11:34PM
    I think both textures look fantastic, but the white just makes him look badass.
  • DisturvingDisturving Senior
    edited May 2015
    Here's a picture of a mail shirt, from wikipedia:

    640px-Bayeux_haubert.JPG


    Here is a close-up of some mail, from another website, www.myarmoury.com:

    kremlin_4469_928.jpg


    Here is a close-up of a picture of the current lord's texture (File attachment):

    [sharedmedia=core:attachments:1386]


    And here is something completely different:

    image_thumb9.png?imgmax=800


    Which of the other pictures here does the third picture listed most resemble?

    Assigir The Nord's picture is fabulous, I really like it. The bits of gold on his armour make him look rich, and some people actually did have gold on their armour in the past, but that makes a question come to my mind. My opinion on this is given in more detail in another thread.

    Warning: Within the spoiler box are some opinions.
    If he's rich enough to have gold on his armour, then why is his best armour on his knees and upper arms, and why can't he afford enough iron to give his forearms better protection than splinted vambraces, or even afford enough iron for complete splinted vambraces? His shield is covered in iron, but shields are fine without a heavy iron covering, so why can't he have the shield's iron turned into a breastplate? The level of technology on his shield, or even just his upper arms show that plate armour exists in whatever time he is taken from. This can be explained by saying that he's not too interested in effective armour, as shown by his lack of face protection (and head protection).
    The folds in the cloth are very different to what I've seen in medieval art.
    My personal opinion is that the lord would look better if he spent his money on armour before bling, but it may be that James has to follow the concept art, and it is a mystery who did the conept art. :(
    That hammerhead must be hollow.



    Edited:

    Gloves18.jpg
    Here is a picture of a pair of old gloves with mail on the backs, and possibly with solid metal cuffs.
    The reason why my writing here is so formal is that people inevitably get annoyed at my writing, so sticking to the rules of formal writing is my attempt to avoid people taking me the wrong way and getting annoyed.
    Complaining and expressing disagreement and arguing are very good things to do.
    If something written by me here does not look formal, it may be because I tried to make it look better than it could were it formal, or it might be that it seems all right to me without it being formal.
  • NiveNive Beta Tester
    edited 11:34PM
    Assigir, those are some brilliant edits. The white has to be my favorite, it really helps him pop.
    The squished necklace looks both better and worse, but likely just because it's an obvious edit.
  • Chedda CheezChedda Cheez Senior
    edited 11:34PM
    Interesting thoughts for sure. Though the extra-extra fleur de lis on the bottom parts of that Lord-edit's tabard seem unnecessary. Going with the concept art of only two, one on each shoulder, seems more elegant a style if that style is pursued in the first place. I don't have as much problem with those on the shield however. And I'm all for some extravagance, but I'm seeing all too well how a little more can be too much, given the fact James has reminded us of that the Lord is more of the tough old "Knight Captain" (which coincidentally points out how he is our Pirate Captain's sort-of equivalent, gameplay wise) rather than a much more wealthy man reigning over the entirety of a kingdom wanting to flaunt his stuff.

    Thinking about this more has changed the perspective for me some. Going by what info I can recall or scrounge from the internet on a moment's notice, a Lord is a vassal to the king, watching over one of many estates. So it may make sense that while he may be well taken care, he may not necessarily be "wealthy". Anything he has would have been provided by the higher-up just for the sake of taking care of landlording business.

    I don't mean to spout off random facts though, especially ones most of you probably understand already, but I think it's worth keeping that focus in mind.

    So Disturving, I want to mention that medieval art isn't necessarily accurate, given what little artistic techniques they apparently had back then. A lot of people can't accurately draw folds in clothing today even.
    Also, with my rambling above, I started to wonder if the gold lining is actually gold and not a lookalike (as a few different materials can have that color, especially with how aged it looks) or decorative lining simply dyed/colored on.
    Plus, I'd think having such a large stalwart shield would remove particular necessity for a breastplate. I'd personally like a mobile piece of metal I can smash into someone's face and block my body with than a fitted hunk of metal weighing me down. Then his other armor attachments help protect anything that his shield may not cover while providing more flexibility.
    Welcome to Cheez's PVKII Funtime Class!
    Rule #1: Have fun. [incredulous gasping ripples throughout the room]

    That concludes Funtime Class! We didn't have the funding for a lengthy seminar. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Stop by again for our next lesson: "Heavy Knight's Heaving Heart: How to Write Poetry for Swords!"

    76561197993232256.png
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited May 2015
    Thanks for the paint over Assigir, looks great! :) I really like the colors on the tunic, will definitely adapt my texture to it. The emblems also on the shield and the touches of brass. I'm still on the fence about the amulet though, will do a version with, without, and modified and let you all decide
  • James DavisJames Davis PVKII Team
    edited 11:34PM
    Updated Model and texture, decision time about the amulet

    Amulet, small amulet, or no amulet?

    11052485_960436074007052_3107074909564400279_o.jpg10329836_960436080673718_2506771369072174839_o.jpg10580874_960436077340385_4919466336084465160_o.jpg11202950_960436114007048_894273969466910035_o.jpg11357027_960436117340381_9197659149034776835_o.jpg
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