Suggestions For Official Maps
Developer level designers need to consider the science of what makes a PVK2 map great from the ground up, and allow the art to flow from a solid layout. Sometimes things work out great and our maps are beloved by all and other times, a map for our game may have been created years ago and may need to be brought up to speed for current standards.
Our dev and tester teams work hard to test and refine our maps, but there is only so much we can either catch or think of with our established workflow. And so, we're lowering the ramp down to you for suggestions for our official maps. Have an idea that might improve a section? Have an alternative solution for an area you think is out of balance? Here is the place for your ideas, concepts, and solutions.
Rules
- Follow forum rules as always
- Suggestions must tell us why an area/dynamic isn't working, and what could be done to improve it.
- Off topic banter will be hidden, so stay on target! Inappropriate or ignorant suggestions will be ignored (see below)
- Use any visuals, evidence, sketches, etc you want to suggest how we can make things better.
- Suggestions should be clear, to the point, and as few words as you can. Elaborate and detail if necessary.
Examples:
Inappropriate Suggestion: Town sucks. I always die. (The end.)
Good suggestion: I feel lts_town's layout could use an overhaul. It is difficult to find people during sudden death, and gameplay in the streets should be the focus. I feel like the layout could be more gridlike, and arena-sized for the town. Building doors only open for sudden death allowing you a safehaven from the streets that were the primary focus before sudden death. You would then have to time your exits from building to building. Here is a sketch I drew...
Thanks Meboyos
As members of the community, you have a voice, and here is one of the many spaces you have to use it. Wisely.
We appreciate any support for our PVK2 and OctoShark Studios.
Happy suggesting,
Colonial Sanders
Comments
I struggle to think of a player who did not at one time, get stuck in Island's dungeon. Replacing the brick with a mostly-excavated lever uncovered by an unfortunate soul who's skeleton is all that remains, would fix this problem immediately.
The rock in front of the Pirate's ship on Island has always been awkward. Making it wider and lower might help.
At the moment, I've got nothing that MrMoho isn't already (probably) working on.
In te_tortuga, the Knights territory (the smithery) feels a bit too far away from the intersection, often causing the Knights to go for the Vikings next. Maybe pulling the territory a bit closer to the knights spawn while pushing their spawn a bit further into the wall could help.
In lts_arena the whole underground section isn't propely divided, making it way harder for the pirates to go down that area at the start of a round. Bending the the two entrances nearest to the pirates to be closer to them should do the trick. Of course, this would require a complete overhaul of the map, so I won't be mad if you don't do this.
In te_cara, the place with the bridge in the town area is the only exit of the middle cave section without any way of getting up, which is especially annoying when you fall down there. A ladder to help you up the bridge is what I am picturing.
In lts_cathedral the area at the pirates spawn seems a bit too save during sudden death. Causing one or two more rocks to fall down around that place should make it comfortably unsafe again.
In tw_temple the big area with the rolling rock and lavapit is awfully unpopulated. A more direct conection to the middle room could help. An extra hallway maybe.
I'll bring your ideas regarding island to Gaz's attention
We'll discuss these suggestions with testers, with regards to other map suggestions you've made MrMoho.
And yes MrMoho, you were certainly a major factor in inspiring me for this thread. Thanks for giving me a great idea!
Co-Lead | Level Designer
There's a rock in that same area that needs to be moved closer to the walkway I think. It's easy to corner someone there and trap them. I'll provide a pic later to show what I mean.
Which ropes.
Which is the Vikings Alternate route? Are you referring to the route behind the waterfall?
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You can run off past the archer dummies into the sea and swim though the caves for a more speedy alternate route in
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I hate to break it to ya, but if I want to get the Knight's chests, I will sit by the waterfall and demand that my team follows me. 2 seconds extra travel time is a small price to pay for a route void of arrogant Archers with nothing better to do than harass the Vikings at the first opportunity.
Map analysis
Given that the route's entrance is fairly concealed, it's also a good stealth entrance.
I did some testing.
Screenshot with a visual representation of the travel times
At Gestir speed, that "not-speedy exit" is the fastest and most convenient way to the Knight's base available, at 20 seconds. 18 if you can pull off the jump. I suggest raising the cliff a little to stop people from doing that.
The speedy entrance takes you past front line defenders, but you have to reach it first, and they can comfortably harass you the entire time. If you take the most defended route (through the upper exit from the Viking base, wade through the river, up the rope) the fastest you'll possibly reach their base is the longest of all the travel times at 25 seconds, and you still have to go through the Knight's front line. Even a more direct route doesn't save much time, and you still have to push through the Knights.
Suggestions
If there were a tunnel under the food pick-up leading to the water, on the side nearest the alternate entrance, the Knights would have to concede the high ground and extend further from their own base, or keep the high ground and forgo the opportunity to harass the Vikings the moment they leave their territory.
If you want the waterfall "exit" to be an exit (and simultaneously solve the problem of it being the best entrance) you could make it one-way by removing the plank leading to it, and hollow out the area beneath the high ground, offering Vikings cover from Archers right up until they reach the front line. Similar to the scenario where the Vikings enter the throne room via the escape route, except they're not in the throne room this time.
Screenshots
with
crudely drawn
diagrams
Summary:
- Escape route is the best entrance
- Speedy route is not speedy
- Raise cliff by waterfall, remove plank
- Carve out caves beneath the raised ground
- Tunnel leading to speedy route by the food pick-up to by-pass combat
- Reposition the speedy route. Remove suspicious wall.
Personally, I like the idea of holding up shields and moving forward as a unit to take on the Knights, but nobody ever goes along with it. Meanwhile, despite my objections, my Archer team mates are only too happy to abandon the chests and shoot at the Vikings as the round begins.
I hadn't tested the timings, I was just typing what I had in mind when I set it up. I'm going to leave the plank in though so that new players can see it
I've also fixed the planking that Ukyo Kuonji mentioned
I've also set the Dungeon door to spawn open rather than closed to lessen the chance of a new player getting stuck there, and fixed the rock jump out of water issue by the pirate ship
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Having the door spawn open, and then a savvy Knight shut it to stop a potencial dinah is much less likely to happen than just trapping a dinah by accident
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So at the beginning of each round, all archers can go towards vikings through the tunnel, and stand behind the waterfall wrecking vikings without them being able to go up there and do something about it? Genious!
In all honesty I think both paths between vikings/knights are fine and viable options depending on which you excpect to meet someone else on. Why change something that isnt broken?
Archers do that already, only they're well out of the Viking's range on the highground just outside their own base.
If there were Archers behind the waterfall, they would be sitting ducks for throwing axes and javelins, which are significantly more effective against Archers than arrows are against Vikings.
The Vikings would also be able to take cover in the caves I suggested.
Once they were past the first large rock on the path, the Archers would need to jump down from their perch and cut off their own retreat to continue shooting, not that the Vikings would be particularly bothered, given that a significant part of the Knight's team would be stranded behind them.
Those things gave you a tactical advantage if you knew how to use them and it would've been great to get them back in there
You do know that its possible to jump up there with a simple ctrl-jump right? Making the ledge inaccessible from the viking side would only make it easier for archers to wreck havok.
I never touched the jetty roof. The ladder jump was an exploit so it was removed/fixed
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I liked that exploit
We have considered this. The horses are triggered by Lhorkan to spread further apart with more players. Perhaps we can try increasing that distance further. 3 horses would mean some more entity strain, but it's worth a try. We could have it set up like sandstorm: health, armour, health.
Co-Lead | Level Designer
Was it always possible to leap directly on to the rock with the food on it between the bases of the Knights and Vikings, from the front and right sides, as a Heavy Knight?
While it is a tricky jump, it is also possible to leap onto that new rock by the trees. As an Archer. Granting one an unobstructed sight-line all the way to the Viking's front door, as well as a height advantage that enemies are hard-pressed to pull one down from.
After some testing, I found that from the Viking's front door, a direct approach to the tunnel leading to the underwater tunnel and into the throne room took 20 seconds.
The main route took 18 seconds, like last time, but that way involves directly engaging the Knights, and it wasn't an issue in the first place.
The most direct route to the underwater tunnel (over the first tunnel) took only 17 seconds. This is now officially the fastest way in. You successfully made the not-speedy speedy route speedy.
For the sake of a more complete analysis, I found that from the cave separating Pirate and Knight territory, the Pirates can blaze into the throne room after anywhere between 10 and 16-18 seconds. At Captain speed. It's a good thing they've got more of their own base to run through.
In the cellar area of the castle, where there was once a gaping hole in the wall for the Vikings to enter through, there is now a solid brick wall. It seems a little bland, compared to the rest of the room. Perhaps it could look as though it were fixed and/or barricaded?
A thought about Sphynx's opinion on the transition of the path to the dirt floor of the tunnel between the Pirate's and Viking's bases. Because it disappears after the tunnel (which now shows no signs of civilization, let alone path builders) I find myself questioning whether or not it makes sense for the path to lead directly into a hole in a wall, but not out of it. Especially since that's exactly how the other paths around the rest of the map seem to operate.
As for the other changes, I like them.
Bt_Island: Viking Port
I'd like to point this area out before I forget again. It's not possible to walk onto those tiles from this angle. A jump is required for some reason. After getting stuck there and eviscerated, I have seen more than one of my pursuers left behind, dazed and confused at this tiny step that they cannot overcome.
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