I really wish...

SoloableSoloable Senior
edited February 2014 in Suggestions
Please Read all my suggestions and give feedback

I really wish.. or Dear Santa, ....

That when I'm playing Skirmisher, I could pick up my bullets again like the Huscarl or Gestir can pick up their throwing weapons and try again.

That or, don't allow them to pick them back up again. I mean, they already have a shield to block my gun, while if they miss me, I get the penalty of them going and picking them back up and trying again, obviously there are more variables to consider here, but its unfair that the Skirmisher and Sharpshooter get a penalty for missing. Espiecially now ( Like I said before, the skirmishers pistol hitbox is still off ). < I'm almost certain that I've hit people and its missed.

So a couple of different suggestions just to balance things out ( at least in my opinion ):
  • Allow the Skirmisher to Pick up his bullets, ( Including Sharpshooter ) Not sure about archer if they can or cannot.

or
  • Don't allow the Gestir, archer? and Huscarl to pick up their throwing weapons / Arrows. Also, if you're wondering, I'm unsure if Archer can pick up their arrows again. So, let every class pick up their range weapons, or let none at all. And if the skirmisher can pick up his bullets again, make him reload his gun

or
  • Remake the Skirmishers gun like the Pirates in Chivalry: Deadliest Warrior in which you can actually see the bullet being fired and using a similar mechanic to the archer, only just say, faster? Allowing the Skirmisher to pick it up if he misses

Am I the only one who feels this would balance things out somewhat more? Pirates are somewhat at a strange stage right now if I do say so myself.
Although I'm not calling them underpowered.

Any suggestions you like? Or you wouldn't mind being put in the game? Feel free to leave a comment

Also I'm sorry if I made any mistakes about Archer or Sharpshooters, I haven't played in awhile :icon_stabhead:

Comments

  • ThatOneBoxThatOneBox Senior
    edited 3:47AM
    I don't like this at all. That hardly seems fair, given the skirmisher's movement speed and attack speed. Not to mention, if you're in the middle of a battle are you really going to stop and look for a tiny little bullet? It would probably get lost in the dirt of arena or buried in cathedral. This doesn't seem very logical, and the skirmsher is strong enough if you know what you're doing. As for the sharpshooter, i feel he is perfectly balanced the way he is. You've got to remember his main weapon is the rifle, not the pistol, unlike the archer. The rifle has five bullets. five. That's is a huge damage potential right there, and that's disregarding the pistol and and special. I think it's fair for the vikings and archer to pick up their weapons because they are actually easy to spot, and not to mention their damage isn't the highest, although those javelins hurt. (but that's why you only get 2, with a maximum of 3)

    I don't think it would be very balanced if this was implemented.
  • Dr.ClericDr.Cleric Senior
    edited 3:47AM
    Dear santa...

    Don't buff pirates.

    Everything is pretty balanced as it is, and what you propose would screw with that.

    Thank you

    xoxo
    “I don't have moments of weakness. I'm Rik Mayall.” -Rik Mayall
  • SoloableSoloable Senior
    edited February 2014
    Boxxu1337 wrote:

    I don't like this at all. That hardly seems fair, given the skirmisher's movement speed and attack speed. Not to mention, if you're in the middle of a battle are you really going to stop and look for a tiny little bullet? It would probably get lost in the dirt of arena or buried in cathedral. This doesn't seem very logical, and the skirmsher is strong enough if you know what you're doing. As for the sharpshooter, i feel he is perfectly balanced the way he is. You've got to remember his main weapon is the rifle, not the pistol, unlike the archer. The rifle has five bullets. five. That's is a huge damage potential right there, and that's disregarding the pistol and and special. I think it's fair for the vikings and archer to pick up their weapons because they are actually easy to spot, and not to mention their damage isn't the highest, although those javelins hurt. (but that's why you only get 2, with a maximum of 3)

    I don't think it would be very balanced if this was implemented.


    "That hardly seems fair, given the skirmisher's movement speed and attack speed."
    And given the Huscarls 2-h, 1-h and shield and throwing axes he can pick back up?
    Just no. How does this govern to the fact that a Skirmisher should be able to pick up bullets if missed?
    "if you're in the middle of a battle are you really going to stop and look for a tiny little bullet?"
    Yes, obviously, those bullets come in handy for finishing people off, not every Skirmisher runs in with little hp in hope that his opponent will miss.

    "This doesn't seem very logical, and the skirmsher is strong enough if you know what you're doing."
    I love it how I've played Skirmisher for years yet someone tells me I don't know what I'm doing. I know how to play Skirmisher, I've fought very skilled players and its very frustrating when they know how to use ranged weapons, espiecally when fighting Archers, Huscarls, Gestirs.

    "I think it's fair for the vikings and archer to pick up their weapons because they are actually easy to spot, and not to mention their damage isn't the highest, although those javelins hurt."
    Archers are easy to spot? I'm sorry, what? I would take running at a Sharpshooter anyday over a decent archer. Although your Sharpshooter being balanced is reasonably correct. And yes, those Javelins do indeed hurt, espiecally since it only takes what, 2 javs to kill a Skirmisher, so if someone hits me with 1 I'm basically on half hp? And don't get me started on the Huscarl throwing Axes.

    What I'm trying to say:
    Its not balanced if a Skirmisher can pick up his bullets if he misses yet its balanced that the Huscarl has incredible damage, can throw axes and pick them back up if he misses, has a shield to block my bullets and can also hide his special because there is no indication that he has one? ( Although this goes both for Skirmisher and Huscarl ), and doesn't have a faulty weapon that relies on a terrible crosshair that misses most of the time?

    To be honest, you people just don't like change. Probably got dominated by a decent Skirmisher and now are scared of anything that even gives them the same mechanics as any other class. While Huscarls and Gestirs jump and throw spears freely, Skirmishers have to stand still and hope for the best with horrible accuracy.
    And may I add: Doesn't have any bloody defense against their range weapons?! And please don't say speed, any normal person can adjust their throw to a skirmishers speed.

    And yes, maybe this is just because I'm frustrated with the Arena map or Cathedral. Or because I always play Last Man Standing, I would play other gamemodes but, those servers have horrible pings, or are full. So if you're wondering what game mode I'm talking about, its Last Man Standing, in which I've noticed Pirates are most likely played the least in terms of players that are actually decent at the game.
  • SoloableSoloable Senior
    edited February 2014
    Next I'll be hearing how amazing the Captain is against a Gestir, oh the range difference.. oh those jav's that I'm not fast enough to dodge, and don't have a shield to block..
    And sharpshooter too :D, while the sharpshooters try so desperately to shoot the vikings down with their guns, the vikings have shields so, the Sharpshooter has 2 choices, Run, or use the rifle and dagger, Lol.

    Argh Pirates! If we throw our barrels someone will shoot them and we'll die :icon_pirate2:
    Argh Pirates! The Captain's bird will distract any decent player for at least 0.1 seconds, most likely! :icon_pirate2:
    Argh Pirates! The Sharpshooters rifle will destroy them, unless they have a shield! :icon_pirate2:

    Need I say more? Too much sarcasm? :icon_noimageaccident: God I hate this forum -.-
  • ThatOneBoxThatOneBox Senior
    edited 3:47AM
    Soloable wrote:

    Next I'll be hearing how amazing the Captain is against a Gestir, oh the range difference.. oh those jav's that I'm not fast enough to dodge, and don't have a shield to block..
    And sharpshooter too :D, while the sharpshooters try so desperately to shoot the vikings down with their guns, the vikings have shields so, the Sharpshooter has 2 choices, Run, or use the rifle and dagger, Lol.

    Argh Pirates! If we throw our barrels someone will shoot them and we'll die :icon_pirate2:
    Argh Pirates! The Captain's bird will distract any decent player for at least 0.1 seconds, most likely! :icon_pirate2:
    Argh Pirates! The Sharpshooters rifle will destroy them, unless they have a shield! :icon_pirate2:

    Need I say more? Too much sarcasm? :icon_noimageaccident: God I hate this forum -.-



    And given the Huscarls 2-h, 1-h and shield and throwing axes he can pick back up?

    what's your reasoning behind this. You can't sit and say "jsut no."

    Yes, obviously, those bullets come in handy for finishing people off, not every Skirmisher runs in with little hp in hope that his opponent will miss.

    have fun getting hit in the back while searching for your bullets in the sand. And you don't 'hope' that your enemy misses, you make him miss.


    I love it how I've played Skirmisher for years yet someone tells me I don't know what I'm doing

    Sorry if you mis-udnerstood, i didn't say you don't know what you're doing, i meant if the players knows what they are doing, not reffering to you in particular.


    Archers are easy to spot? I'm sorry, what? I would take running at a Sharpshooter anyday over a decent archer. Although your Sharpshooter being balanced is reasonably correct. And yes, those Javelins do indeed hurt, espiecally since it only takes what, 2 javs to kill a Skirmisher, so if someone hits me with 1 I'm basically on half hp? And don't get me started on the Huscarl throwing Axes.

    I don't think you understand what i'm trying to say. i meant the archers and vikings projectiles are easy to spot. i don't even know what you're getting at...


    "To be honest, you people just don't like change. Probably got dominated by a decent Skirmisher"


    if he can dominate why does he need a buff


    "Doesn't have any bloody defense against their range weapons?! And please don't say speed,"


    but that's exactly it.

    "And yes, maybe this is just because I'm frustrated"

    calm down then, and come post when you regained control of your emotions.




    "God I hate this forum -.- "

    then why are you here.
  • DenshinDenshin Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited 3:47AM
    Not only does re-usable bullets not make much sense as a small led ball would either get too lodged into stone/wood to dig back our or get too deformed on impact so it would not serve as a useful projectile, I don't believe that it is a crutch that pirates require altogether. The captain doesn't rely on his blunderbuss nearly anything, and the skirmisher has been nerfed in the previous patch to make his pistol less efficient. I think the sharpshooter's weapons are pretty strong and much easier to use so I feel it's an okay downside, besides when a dedicated ranged class fire into battling crowds he's -never- going to jump into there to retrieve his used shots

    I'd -love- if I could use the sharpshooter special when out of ammo though.

    The vikings make much better use of this than the archer because the vikings max ammo capacity is incredible low and their ranged weapons can be a crutch needed when combating faster or stronger enemies. The archer and SS has a lot of ammo at their disposal, and even when trying to keep themselves efficient with ammunition, they'd most likely only be able to retrieve maybe 10 to 25% of their used ammunition.

    QUOTE (Trojan•Clinique @ Nov 8 2011, 08:06 PM)
    Denshin is a rather overpowered class.

    QUOTE (Lucas =) @ Jan 12 2012, 08:16 AM)
    We're currently working on making Denshin less OP.
    signatureopaquesmall.png

  • Major ChulainMajor Chulain Senior
    edited February 2014
    I missed 3 shots today but i hit

    tumblr_m0av2xAGCu1qjhbl2o1_250.jpg
    j7rk8n.jpg
  • cainsithcainsith Beta Tester
    edited 3:47AM
    image

    I think the first 5 seconds of this video describe what denshin said perfectly.

    If you could pick those back up and put them in your gun and make them work again, I'd call you a wizard and just let you kill me.

    As for my feedback in regard to it:

    The skirmisher shouldn't need a buff such as that. As stated above he has the speed to out maneuver most projectile attacks. If you are having a problem dodging arrows and axes, try moving in more unpredictable patterns. If they keep hitting you then your movements are easy to read for your opponents. Skirmisher is basically a hit and run assassin with their speed and not so high health.
  • SoloableSoloable Senior
    edited February 2014
    Denshin wrote:

    Not only does re-usable bullets not make much sense as a small led ball would either get too lodged into stone/wood to dig back our or get too deformed on impact so it would not serve as a useful projectile, I don't believe that it is a crutch that pirates require altogether. The captain doesn't rely on his blunderbuss nearly anything, and the skirmisher has been nerfed in the previous patch to make his pistol less efficient. I think the sharpshooter's weapons are pretty strong and much easier to use so I feel it's an okay downside, besides when a dedicated ranged class fire into battling crowds he's -never- going to jump into there to retrieve his used shots

    I'd -love- if I could use the sharpshooter special when out of ammo though.

    The vikings make much better use of this than the archer because the vikings max ammo capacity is incredible low and their ranged weapons can be a crutch needed when combating faster or stronger enemies. The archer and SS has a lot of ammo at their disposal, and even when trying to keep themselves efficient with ammunition, they'd most likely only be able to retrieve maybe 10 to 25% of their used ammunition.

    This is one thing I considered, obviously the actual realism behind lifting a missed bullet is sort of, well odd. Its just something that seemed fair to me.
    Tbh I think the honest thing I'm mad at is missing my Skirmisher shots, nearly all the time. The gun itself is not hard to use. Its the crosshair and the almost seemingly random misses when I'm looking straight at a target with the crosshair. In fact I'm almost certain that the gun will only hit when an enemy is in the side of the crosshair itself, instead of inside it.

    I still support the change to the Pirate gun Similar in Chivalry: Deadliest Warrior, where you can see the bullet, I feel like relying on timing is a lot more easier to do. But thats just my opinion.
  • DenshinDenshin Beta Tester, Authorized Creator
    edited 3:47AM
    I'm definitely all for turning hitscan into projectile weapons, with pirate guns having a short tracer smoke behind it like the sharps rifle.

    QUOTE (Trojan•Clinique @ Nov 8 2011, 08:06 PM)
    Denshin is a rather overpowered class.

    QUOTE (Lucas =) @ Jan 12 2012, 08:16 AM)
    We're currently working on making Denshin less OP.
    signatureopaquesmall.png

  • MrMohoMrMoho Senior
    edited February 2014
    I'm sorry, but I really have to disagree with you.

    It is really easy to avoid the projectiels (and therefore also really hard to hit with them) of the vikings. They are slow and need to be charged up while the pistol is a instant (though inaccurate) inpact. This fact together with the Skimirshers speed gives the him the perfect tool for mindgaming. If your enemy has his giant axe out, shoot him with your gun, if he gets his shield out, attack him with your cutlass, if he is dumb enough to get his projectile out, hit him in the face with your cutlass.
    Because of the time it actually takes a Viking (especially an Gestir) to ready his projectile, you can hit and dance around him, most likely causing him to miss and getting a big chunk of his health removed.
    The projectiles of the VIkings really only can be used while initiating or chasing, and even then the chance to miss is quite high. On top of that they really have a limited ammunition pool of 4 axes or 2 spears to start off, to a maximum of 6 and 3, while the skirmisher starts off with 6 up to a maximum of 12.
    The upside of the vinkings projectiles though are that they can fly further, are accurate and deal from a bit (axe) to a lot (spears) more damage, which still, pretty much only because of the fact that you can't toy around with your enemy, makes them worse in most situations in my opinion (I totally would prefer the pistol over the axes when playing Huscarl :P).

    However, when fighting archers you have to pull out your inner Neo and dodge his shots like crazy, though while doing so you can shoot (and try to hit him) with your gun (which is more of a gamble, yes, but in these situations I actually hit about 50% of my shots) and ones you reach him, you should be able to kill him (and you will reach him faster than any Viking out there).
    I know this can be sometimes quite challenging, especially when fighting a really, really good one, though for those you should take a diffrent approach, literally. The speed of the Skirmisher gives him the possibility to take diffrent routes and ambush players from who he just ran away a second ago.

    Also, I really don't see your problem with the pistols hitbox. I actually hit around 75-80% of my shots when toying with my prey, though sometimes it can go down to 25-50%, on other times however up to 90-100%, while my accuary with an axe and spear always dances around 50% (yes, I'm incredibly horrible at hitting people with Throwing axes).

    Though, well, while we are at it, I really think the archer also should get the same ammunition pool of 15-20 like the Sharpshooter. I mean he gets a pool of 20-30 with higher damage, further range and the option to pick his arrows back up. Though this is more of a Archer and Sharpshooter balance.

    And the Captain's Blunderbuss should get a Knockback...

    ...

    ...Okay, I'm done
  • simiussimius Senior
    edited 3:47AM
    Skirmisher pistol just isn't accurate and you can get not registered hits like with any other weapon. I feel like there's no need for change. Projectile weapons instead of hitscan would be nice but you also have to consider that it made hitting even a bit harder since travel time became a factor as well, besides inaccuracy.
    You could introduce a fair amount of bullet drop to compensate for the opportunities of improved accuracy.
  • ThatOneBoxThatOneBox Senior
    edited 3:47AM
    Also, you could try playing in lag. I've noticed that the higher your lag is the higher accuracy the skirm pistol gets. What's up with that?
  • AsmundrAsmundr Senior
    edited February 2014
    God, aiming with archer being high (on ping) is a real pain in the ass, always having to aim at a point the target gets to after running ~15m - in a straight line ^^ (yeye not very helpful post, I know :icon_whistling: )
    2yn.gif rnz.gif
  • SoloableSoloable Senior
    edited February 2014
    simius wrote:

    Skirmisher pistol just isn't accurate and you can get not registered hits like with any other weapon. I feel like there's no need for change. Projectile weapons instead of hitscan would be nice but you also have to consider that it made hitting even a bit harder since travel time became a factor as well, besides inaccuracy.
    You could introduce a fair amount of bullet drop to compensate for the opportunities of improved accuracy.


    I like the idea of bullet drop. Although I just dislike hitscan weapons. I might just make a video of me constantly missing with the weapon, yet the crosshair showing that I've shot the player.
    Boxxu1337 wrote:

    Also, you could try playing in lag. I've noticed that the higher your lag is the higher accuracy the skirm pistol gets. What's up with that?

    This may actually be true I believe. Although I'm unsure.

    Asmundr wrote:

    God, aiming with archer being high (on ping) is a real pain in the ass, always having to aim at a point the target gets to after running ~15m - in a straight line ^^ (yeye not very helpful post, I know :icon_whistling: )

    Depends on who you're talking about with high ping. You or your enemy, also I've noticed that the amount of servers is well, lacking, most Booty servers are full or give me really high ping. Mostly I'm restricted to the arena servers because of this. :icon_pirate:
  • simiussimius Senior
    edited 3:47AM
    I'm not sure if the pistol is actually supposed to hit only within the circle but I'm guessing it's just not the case and I'm okay with it. The pistol is still annoying enough even without being able to hit every shot.
    As I said; simply removing hitscan wouldn't make the pistol more accurate.
    I see your point though. I find myself wondering about the destination of the bullets as well sometimes. The miss would be easier to accept if you knew where the bullet went. (I'm more annoyed by hits where I can even hear the impact in the knights armor or w/e and it still doesn't count as a hit)
  • ThatOneBoxThatOneBox Senior
    edited 3:47AM
    simius wrote:

    I'm not sure if the pistol is actually supposed to hit only within the circle but I'm guessing it's just not the case and I'm okay with it. The pistol is still annoying enough even without being able to hit every shot.
    As I said; simply removing hitscan wouldn't make the pistol more accurate.
    I see your point though. I find myself wondering about the destination of the bullets as well sometimes. The miss would be easier to accept if you knew where the bullet went. (I'm more annoyed by hits where I can even hear the impact in the knights armor or w/e and it still doesn't count as a hit)


    good thing you don't play on CC. While i love the server to death, the hit registration is just downright awful..
  • SoloableSoloable Senior
    edited 3:47AM
    simius wrote:

    I'm not sure if the pistol is actually supposed to hit only within the circle but I'm guessing it's just not the case and I'm okay with it. The pistol is still annoying enough even without being able to hit every shot.
    As I said; simply removing hitscan wouldn't make the pistol more accurate.
    I see your point though. I find myself wondering about the destination of the bullets as well sometimes. The miss would be easier to accept if you knew where the bullet went. (I'm more annoyed by hits where I can even hear the impact in the knights armor or w/e and it still doesn't count as a hit)


    This is actually very true, I hear many times that when I fire or hit an enemy, I can hear the sound, and I know the hit registers, but it doesn't. Why is that I wonder?
  • simiussimius Senior
    edited 3:47AM
    Well the information your pc has at that time (regarding mainly the opponents current postion) differs from the position the server defines the opponent to be. When you hear the hit it would hit at that time but that isnn't the "present". The server is "present" and the attack command coming from your pc takes some time to get to the server. You're always a bit behind by a few ms what can cause unregistered hits. Something like that - tbh don't now much about this topic.
    I seem to get many unregistered hits but I'm told that I had a higher range with my weapons as well. I suspect my upload speed is too low or something like that, my connection sucks anyways but due to my rural location I can't change that at the moment.
  • ThufirThufir Senior
    edited February 2014
    Soloable wrote:

    "That hardly seems fair, given the skirmisher's movement speed and attack speed."
    And given the Huscarls 2-h, 1-h and shield and throwing axes he can pick back up?
    Just no. How does this govern to the fact that a Skirmisher should be able to pick up bullets if missed?
    "if you're in the middle of a battle are you really going to stop and look for a tiny little bullet?"
    Yes, obviously, those bullets come in handy for finishing people off, not every Skirmisher runs in with little hp in hope that his opponent will miss.

    "This doesn't seem very logical, and the skirmsher is strong enough if you know what you're doing."
    I love it how I've played Skirmisher for years yet someone tells me I don't know what I'm doing. I know how to play Skirmisher, I've fought very skilled players and its very frustrating when they know how to use ranged weapons, espiecally when fighting Archers, Huscarls, Gestirs.

    "I think it's fair for the vikings and archer to pick up their weapons because they are actually easy to spot, and not to mention their damage isn't the highest, although those javelins hurt."
    Archers are easy to spot? I'm sorry, what? I would take running at a Sharpshooter anyday over a decent archer. Although your Sharpshooter being balanced is reasonably correct. And yes, those Javelins do indeed hurt, espiecally since it only takes what, 2 javs to kill a Skirmisher, so if someone hits me with 1 I'm basically on half hp? And don't get me started on the Huscarl throwing Axes.

    What I'm trying to say:
    Its not balanced if a Skirmisher can pick up his bullets if he misses yet its balanced that the Huscarl has incredible damage, can throw axes and pick them back up if he misses, has a shield to block my bullets and can also hide his special because there is no indication that he has one? ( Although this goes both for Skirmisher and Huscarl ), and doesn't have a faulty weapon that relies on a terrible crosshair that misses most of the time?

    To be honest, you people just don't like change. Probably got dominated by a decent Skirmisher and now are scared of anything that even gives them the same mechanics as any other class. While Huscarls and Gestirs jump and throw spears freely, Skirmishers have to stand still and hope for the best with horrible accuracy.
    And may I add: Doesn't have any bloody defense against their range weapons?! And please don't say speed, any normal person can adjust their throw to a skirmishers speed.

    And yes, maybe this is just because I'm frustrated with the Arena map or Cathedral. Or because I always play Last Man Standing, I would play other gamemodes but, those servers have horrible pings, or are full. So if you're wondering what game mode I'm talking about, its Last Man Standing, in which I've noticed Pirates are most likely played the least in terms of players that are actually decent at the game.


    DUDE LEARN TO DODGE HOLY shirley IF YOU PAY ANY ATTENTION ONLY 1 IN EVER 8 AXES AT MAX WILL HIT YOU
    okay sorry but seriously skirm is NOT gettting buffed get over it is one of if not THE top class in the game for pro players practice more bro

    Edit: clearly you are still walking in VERY predictable paths if you are bitching about throwing axes as a skrim i can dodge them NP on a HK without shield you should have any problem if you jump and crouch and be very unpredictable in your movements
    movementspeed helps but you don't need to be a super fast moving class to dodge any projectile, it helps but defenately not required

    also you carry double the ammo of axes and 4 times the ammo of javs and can easily out run anyone to get to more ammo and health, as a skrim you can select when to engage and it can be after shooting them 18 times if you want

    and the DPS of the skirm sword is insane + the special the builds fast if you have problems with vikings you need to practice skim more
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