bt_island Viking Area, Few Other Things

SpirrwellSpirrwell That Guy That Knows Things About a Lot of ThingsPVKII Team, Authorized Creator
edited August 2013 in Suggestions
As a lot know, I've spent probably 80% of my play time on the island map, and there's still a few minor things that bug me. I've noticed that if the Vikings get most, if not all of the chests, they can be EXTREMELY hard to steal from especially if everyone is defending properly. They don't even necessarily need to be that great if they're all there. It usually requires a good joint effort to steal from the Vikings, however I notice that this is more difficult as a Pirate than as a Knight. The Knights have two fairly close exits to choose from when running with the treasure and it's a shorter run to the Knights area. Though I could be wrong about that, as it "feels" longer getting to the Pirate area with a chest because obstacles of falling off the bridge into the water or treading through water outside of the club slowing you down. Not to mention that the Viking spawn is positioned in such a way that they can see the Pirates running with a chest if they go that direction.

I've played around in the older versions of island, and I noticed that way back when that the underground passage for the Pirates used to go to where the bridge was. I think it would be nice if one could choose to go either way, that way the Pirates could split up the way that the Knights can. Also I personally think that the Knight's tickets should be lowered to 420, but that's debatable. It usually takes my absolute A+ game in order to win as a Knight. If the Pirates get the chests, it definitely seems more difficult to retrieve chests as a Knight. Because the distance between the entrance to the Pirates and their capture zone is a fair distance away. And the Knights have only one entrance to the Pirates whereas the Vikings have two. Unless you count going through the Viking area to get to the Pirates.
Plus the Vikings have the secret area to teleport to the Knight side quickly and is easy to bypass any aggressive Knights to get to the Pirate area.


I love the map, I don't think any major changes should be made to it, though I would like to see at least one of these considered even if they weren't all necessarily suggestions, I wanted to bring up the points anyway to see what others think.. Well, thanks in advance for any considerations.
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Comments

  • UberMannUberMann Level Designer PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited 3:50AM
    You have a point here, personally I also think the Vikings base is too defensible. Also, Knights currently have an incredibly hard time attacking and taking chests from the Pirates. And with the addition of the Sharpshooter, attacking has become even harder, since there is so little cover for the Knights and they will no doubt constantly be shot at by Sharpshooters.

    I also notice that Knights have a very hard time keeping more than half of their chests for longer than five minutes. The initial attacks from both the Vikings and Pirates put the sandwiched Knights at a severe disadvantage. And since there are four ways of getting into the Knight base there are also plenty of options for attackers to choose from in order to sneak in and steal a chest quickly.

    Personally, I also have a big issue with the Knight spawn. The Viking and Pirate spawns are inaccessible, yet the Knight spawn is not only accessible, but also has a food pickup. In theory it makes sense to me, but what I often see happening on Island is that Pirates or Vikings run through the Knight spawn to grab the food and possibly fill their special on a just spawned Knight player (who will most of the time be overwhelmed by the unexpected attack). This also means Knights will be held up in their spawn from time to time, preventing them from defending their chests in the throne room.

    These may just be personal issues I have with the map though, what are your thoughts on these?
  • SpirrwellSpirrwell That Guy That Knows Things About a Lot of Things PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited August 2013
    Well you brought up some points that I thought about too such as the Knight spawn. It has always been an issue. As a matter of fact, the other teams were originally without protected spawns in the earlier versions of island. It would only make sense for them to have one now or none at all. It would probably be better to have a protected spawn though. Although I would think that MAA would relieve some of that stress that's there, but I believe a map would be easy to update in a mini-update. Also, the reason the Knights get pounded is simply because they have all the chests in the beginning. I wouldn't mind if they were spread between the three teams, although I believe part of the fun is trying to get chests from the Knights, and plus that would screw with the Heart of Gold achievement.

    Perhaps certain entrances could be blocked for a little while and opened after a certain amount of time. People might hate that though. I'm not entirely sure, I would like to hear others' opinions on the matter.

    Speaking of cover, the Pirates also have a direct line of sight to each entrance which equals easy shot with the rifle if the Sharpshooters are ready and waiting. Which also means they get to see people coming in\leaving right from spawn or from death and then one can switch to the SS or Skirmisher depending how far away they are, health they have, and take them down easily.
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  • DinahDinah Skirmisher's wench PVKII Team
    edited 3:50AM
    Viking spawn needs protection against kegs, no fun to spawn with a keg next to you and a skirmisher with a special outside. There is also the risk of an ss shooting you while you're in spawn, same goes for archers. Pirates can also be shot by an archer in spawn.
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  • SpirrwellSpirrwell That Guy That Knows Things About a Lot of Things PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited 3:50AM
    Dinah wrote:

    Viking spawn needs protection against kegs, no fun to spawn with a keg next to you and a skirmisher with a special outside.

    Awwwww..........................
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  • yushyush Senior
    edited 3:50AM
    Knights has another way - behind the rocks, underwater, grab chest, gone underwater. Works for me.
  • SpirrwellSpirrwell That Guy That Knows Things About a Lot of Things PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited August 2013
    yush wrote:

    Knights has another way - behind the rocks, underwater, grab chest, gone underwater. Works for me.

    It's also longer, your gold trail can be noticed, and plus it still leads to the same and only exit for the Knights, which means that you're likely going to be seen anyway especially if they're defending properly. Even if one Pirate is there towards the exit forcing you to throw down the chest, he's slowing you down enough for his teammates to catch up even if you manage to kill him. However if you do manage to get past the exit and you're with another teammate with a chest and you split up, you're very likely to get one of the two chests. But if you're an archer and you notice a Skirmisher coming too late and they land a hit or two on you, you're probably doomed if you don't have a crossbow shot loaded, but in that momentary confusion it can become difficult to aim anyway.

    Considering it's a fairly straight line to the Knights area from there on out it's easy to retrieve a stolen chest as well and even more so if you get a special. I've found it best to go underground and close the gate behind you if you can. But even then you can still be killed and it's a fairly straight shot back as a Pirate. The Vikings have it great though, if you manage to get through the cave or the club, you can throw a chest in the water, or at the bridge throw it in the water. It's Viking territory and any Viking class can easily take out a Pirate if his goal is the chest in the water.
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  • yushyush Senior
    edited 3:50AM
    That is good point, that narrow passage at pirates is pain in the arse.

    But then...its hard to balance map with 3 different teams consisting of totally different classes with totally different bases
    .
  • Dr.ClericDr.Cleric Senior
    edited 3:50AM
    Plus we got a new class on the way, so that's going to change things. I think the knights might actually keep all their chests for an entire round for once.
    “I don't have moments of weakness. I'm Rik Mayall.” -Rik Mayall
  • SpirrwellSpirrwell That Guy That Knows Things About a Lot of Things PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited 3:50AM
    Dr.Cleric wrote:

    Plus we got a new class on the way, so that's going to change things. I think the knights might actually keep all their chests for an entire round for once.

    Yeah, I'm in the 1.7% that has that Heart of Gold achievement. You have to be on a stacked Knights team to get it. Though the achievement is misleading. It says "Win a round on Island as the Knights without letting enemy teams capture a chest (12+ Players)" What it really means is, have all six chests in the end without letting them be capped by an enemy team. If not all 6 chests are in the capture zone in the end even if they haven't been captured, you don't get it. Not to mention there has to be 12+ players which makes it even harder. As it means there has to be at least four players per team. And when an island game is that full, it tends to fill up faster than lightning.

    Plus there's people that deliberately go out of there way to help and make sure that they capture a chests from the Knights so that they don't get that achievement. Knights have a tough time indeed.
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  • yushyush Senior
    edited 3:50AM
    I have heart of gold too. Three of us HK buddies constantly guarding interior, rest of team around, good archers on the walls. Yeah, we made it ^_^
  • The NibelungThe Nibelung Senior
    edited 3:50AM
    What, hard to steal from vikings? Pirates can easily snatch a chest and be off quickly into that tunnel just next to the ship. As for knights, they need a good team of HKs to pubstomp their way in.


    I always thought the pirates were hard to steal from.

    All ranged classes with guns and explosives right?
    Base is entirely surrounded by water, often making you move slower and not being able to use some specials properly in it. (Huscarl and gestir for example)
    Barely any cover (It's pretty much completely wide open), very much to the pirates advantage.
    Pirates also have the fastest class.
  • SpirrwellSpirrwell That Guy That Knows Things About a Lot of Things PVKII Team, Authorized Creator
    edited 3:50AM
    Hellsten wrote:

    What, hard to steal from vikings? Pirates can easily snatch a chest and be off quickly into that tunnel just next to the ship. As for knights, they need a good team of HKs to pubstomp their way in.


    I always thought the pirates were hard to steal from.

    All ranged classes with guns and explosives right?
    Base is entirely surrounded by water, often making you move slower and not being able to use some specials properly in it. (Huscarl and gestir for example)
    Barely any cover (It's pretty much completely wide open), very much to the pirates advantage.
    Pirates also have the fastest class.

    Actually a Huscarl and Gestir and special and go into the water if they hold W while doing so. I would also use chest stealing as a way to catch up the Pirates. If you kill a Pirate or two, and haul ass back to base, you can special on over or get as far as you can drop the chest in front of them and use a special to push them back. As a Viking, there's a point of no return. If you can manage to pass the cave, you're golden. As a Huscarl you can usually "tank" out your enemies. Plus if you run into a teammate, you'll be even better as the Pirates also have the weakest classes excluding the slower Captain.

    Whereas if you're a Knight, you need to work REAL good together between HK and Archer. Obviously chests can be captured, it's just hard as hell to do it as a Knight from the Pirates. There's less obstacles that way and a more open area, giving the Pirates an advantage of retrieving stolen chests from them. The nice part about Pirates though is that they fall pretty easy, so if you kill a few and they've got like 10 seconds to respawn then you're golden. But the Vikings have the tank Huscarl and Gestir's shield. It's hard to kill them especially with the range of the spear you can get poked to death pretty fast. If one Viking dies, you still have more to deal with and before you know it the one you killed respawns.

    As for going in the tunnel currently, it's easy to go down there and get hit by a couple throwing axes or even a javelin. You can even cut them off from around and you can be golden as well. I find it far easier as a Viking to defend.
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  • KNUDA.knatchKNUDA.knatch Senior
    edited 3:50AM
    Dinah wrote:

    Viking spawn needs protection against kegs, no fun to spawn with a keg next to you and a skirmisher with a special outside. There is also the risk of an ss shooting you while you're in spawn, same goes for archers. Pirates can also be shot by an archer in spawn.


    Haha was it you I kegged in viking spawn not too long ago? Did not go over too well.
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