Oldschool Parry System

He-ManHe-Man Senior
edited 1:42AM in Suggestions
This game was awesome until the parry system was completely overhauled with auto-parry and fully-charged unparryable attacks. I remember when it actually took skill to parry someone and melee combat was a lot more dynamic and fun. Now it's just a bunch of dinahs hacking and slashing away. BRING BACK THE OLD PARRY SYSTEM!!!!!
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Comments

  • PeepeewilsonPeepeewilson PVKII Team
    edited April 2012
    Start a server that enforces manual blocking. You and those who share your opinion can play there.

    Making fully charged attacks go through perfect parries was a necessary change. As I recall, everyone just bitched about staring contests before. The combat system of 2.2 didn't require skill it required exploitation. It was also biased against the pirates entirely.
  • JollygreenJollygreen Troll Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    Manual for real men, auto-parry for gheybetches
    1pYiF.gif
  • Dali's ClockDali's Clock Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    He-Man wrote:

    BRING BACK THE OLD PARRY SYSTEM!!!!!


    didn't you start in 2.3/2.4?
    QUOTE (Blaze @ Sep 18 2011, 06:07 PM) »
    Yes I know throwing it to Barner was dumb everything was going fast, you wouldn't know this mainly because you don't actually play you just get high and sit in spectate all day :P

  • eggzoreggzor Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    Dali wrote:

    didn't you start in 2.3/2.4?


    He played with ferg and paraswarm early 2.0
    image
  • Ninja-ORCNinja-ORC Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    To complain or not to complain is the question. In life theres always something to complain about but the thing is will you let it go or complain.
    76561197981087625.png They say there are no ninjas in PVK. I beg to differ.
  • MaydayMayday Engineering Supreme Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    Hey ninja I found a better forum for you to post on http://www.downsyn.com/phpbb2/index.php
  • Dr. ODr. O Minister of Roggen Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    I remember being on a server which had chat advertisements, one of them was : Real men never parry.
    That makes me lol hard :D
    PVKII Server: The House of Dr. O
    --friendly fire
    --manual block

    My maps/plugins:
    te_sahara_b1 : http://pvkii.gameban...com/maps/184372
    Weddings: http://forums.allied...ad.php?t=221933



    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: well you're the minister of roggen
    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: you'd just be doing your job
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: I need to send an army of monks to the enemy
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: since I'm the minister of propaganda



    5:22 PM - Felis catus: QSBtYW4gY2hvb3NlcywgYSBzbGF2ZSBvYmV5cywgQWxsIHdvcmsgYW5kIG5vIHBsYXkgbWFrZXMgU2lyIFdoaXNrZXluZ3RvbiBhIGR1bGwgYm95Lg==
    5:22 PM - Felis catus: base64
    5:23 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: nab
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: dr o could translate that without a decoder
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he is a wizard
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he actually programmed roggen
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: he programmed the world
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: how it behaves
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: dr o is god
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: lol
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: you forgot the first commandment
    5:25 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: 1. Thou shalt have no gods; thou shalt only have Budnab.
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o made him
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o defined the gods
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o did everything
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: he is the god

  • He-ManHe-Man Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    Okay, I'll meet you in the middle. You keep the fully-charged unparryable attack, but for the love of God just get rid of auto-parry. That way parrying actually takes skill, and for the people who can't parry, they can just use fully charged attacks. Yes? No? Maybe so?
  • Dr. ODr. O Minister of Roggen Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    You really don`t understand what the game is about, I will tell you: it`s about FUN and not about skills. I guess you are one of those who spam the chat with words like "dinah". I don´t care about skills, I want to have some FUN so I play it form time to time. That`s why I use auto-parry, because I have better things to do in my life than play pvk the whole day an train manual block. So just because you think that you are the best and you want to prove that to everyone, I shouldn`t be allowed to use the parry button? Are you stupid? Btw auto parry needs some timing too to get it right, it`s not just press auto parry and you got a perfect parry.
    And don`t tell me that manual block helps you when you get attacked by 5 people at the same time. In such a situation it`s useless.
    Seriously dude, don`t take games to serious ;)
    PVKII Server: The House of Dr. O
    --friendly fire
    --manual block

    My maps/plugins:
    te_sahara_b1 : http://pvkii.gameban...com/maps/184372
    Weddings: http://forums.allied...ad.php?t=221933



    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: well you're the minister of roggen
    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: you'd just be doing your job
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: I need to send an army of monks to the enemy
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: since I'm the minister of propaganda



    5:22 PM - Felis catus: QSBtYW4gY2hvb3NlcywgYSBzbGF2ZSBvYmV5cywgQWxsIHdvcmsgYW5kIG5vIHBsYXkgbWFrZXMgU2lyIFdoaXNrZXluZ3RvbiBhIGR1bGwgYm95Lg==
    5:22 PM - Felis catus: base64
    5:23 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: nab
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: dr o could translate that without a decoder
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he is a wizard
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he actually programmed roggen
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: he programmed the world
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: how it behaves
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: dr o is god
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: lol
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: you forgot the first commandment
    5:25 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: 1. Thou shalt have no gods; thou shalt only have Budnab.
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o made him
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o defined the gods
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o did everything
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: he is the god

  • DMXDMX Senior
    edited May 2012
    Dr. O wrote:

    You really don`t understand what the game is about, I will tell you: it`s about FUN and not about skills. I guess you are one of those who spam the chat with words like "dinah". I don´t care about skills, I want to have some FUN so I play it form time to time. That`s why I use auto-parry, because I have better things to do in my life than play pvk the whole day an train manual block. So just because you think that you are the best and you want to prove that to everyone, I shouldn`t be allowed to use the parry button? Are you stupid? Btw auto parry needs some timing too to get it right, it`s not just press auto parry and you got a perfect parry.
    And don`t tell me that manual block helps you when you get attacked by 5 people at the same time. In such a situation it`s useless.
    Seriously dude, don`t take games to serious ;)


    Looks like we have a future beta-tester candidate right here. 'Autoblock needs some timing to get it right too' Uhh yeah . . . just like everything in the game? you high? So you're saying this game shouldn't have any skill-required combat because its supposed to be fun? You're that type of player that would fridgeing cry at an admin when some guy named Mr. Awesome beats the crap out of you in the most godlike way. It's not fun? Get better you fool. Exactly.



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    joker_by_tortillaturtle-d50i9ir.png
  • Dr. ODr. O Minister of Roggen Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    Learn to read man. I said I don't care about your stupid skill talk, so I don't complain to any admin when I get killed, you're changing the subject. I am good enough to have some fun, I'm just saying let me have it and don't force me to use manual block. Btw I just said that you need timing too, so I don`t know where you got the idea with no skill-requirements from.

    And thanks for insulting me, now I know that you are the retard ;)
    PVKII Server: The House of Dr. O
    --friendly fire
    --manual block

    My maps/plugins:
    te_sahara_b1 : http://pvkii.gameban...com/maps/184372
    Weddings: http://forums.allied...ad.php?t=221933



    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: well you're the minister of roggen
    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: you'd just be doing your job
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: I need to send an army of monks to the enemy
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: since I'm the minister of propaganda



    5:22 PM - Felis catus: QSBtYW4gY2hvb3NlcywgYSBzbGF2ZSBvYmV5cywgQWxsIHdvcmsgYW5kIG5vIHBsYXkgbWFrZXMgU2lyIFdoaXNrZXluZ3RvbiBhIGR1bGwgYm95Lg==
    5:22 PM - Felis catus: base64
    5:23 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: nab
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: dr o could translate that without a decoder
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he is a wizard
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he actually programmed roggen
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: he programmed the world
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: how it behaves
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: dr o is god
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: lol
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: you forgot the first commandment
    5:25 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: 1. Thou shalt have no gods; thou shalt only have Budnab.
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o made him
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o defined the gods
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o did everything
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: he is the god

  • He-ManHe-Man Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    So what you're saying is, you want to play a game that requires little to no skill... Maybe you should just go play with chalk on the sidewalk.
  • PeepeewilsonPeepeewilson PVKII Team
    edited May 2012
    He-Man wrote:

    Okay, I'll meet you in the middle. You keep the fully-charged unparryable attack, but for the love of God just get rid of auto-parry. That way parrying actually takes skill, and for the people who can't parry, they can just use fully charged attacks. Yes? No? Maybe so?


    This is what I suggested when 2.3 was still in development. It would probably be a solid combat system, but It would require a ton of work to make happen at this point.

    But to imply that PVK in its current state requires no skill is absolutely ludicrous. It's hard to take people that make these suggestions seriously when they can't even acknowledge the reason for their bias. Saying 2.2 was the greatest game you ever played and that 2.3+ requires absolutely no skill is like saying a cheeseburger and a hamburger have nothing in common.

    All anyone (good) ever did in 2.2 was run right up in your face (playing ONLY the HK or Berserker) wait for you to ready an attack, and hold up the matching block. Then both players would jump around spinning, ready new attacks/blocks in different directions, and repeat until someone decided to make the first hit. Add in a few bounce backs and some more spinning and you basically have an elite level duel in 2.2

    Simply adding fully charged attacks that go through perfect parries probably would've solved this, but that's just not the route we chose. We're doing the best we can to make a game that's fun (for EVERYONE), competitive, and balanced. It's not easy.
  • He-ManHe-Man Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    Well, I'm glad you can at least understand where I'm coming from on the auto-parry part. If you want to keep pushing for manual parry and keep the fully charged attack, I'm all about it. I know there are a lot of other people that agree, but they just never say anything, because they think no one will listen. This will be my official suggestion: Replace auto-parry with manual parry only. Thank you for your consideration.
  • Dr. ODr. O Minister of Roggen Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    He-Man wrote:

    So what you're saying is, you want to play a game that requires little to no skill... Maybe you should just go play with chalk on the sidewalk.


    Insultations only reflect the poorness of your arguments, never learned that at school?
    I didn't say I want a game that requires no skill, if you think it doesn't require any then simply play smth else and stop that nerd talk. I said let the game be fun, don't make it playable only for some little group of nerds who play it all day long.
    PVKII Server: The House of Dr. O
    --friendly fire
    --manual block

    My maps/plugins:
    te_sahara_b1 : http://pvkii.gameban...com/maps/184372
    Weddings: http://forums.allied...ad.php?t=221933



    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: well you're the minister of roggen
    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: you'd just be doing your job
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: I need to send an army of monks to the enemy
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: since I'm the minister of propaganda



    5:22 PM - Felis catus: QSBtYW4gY2hvb3NlcywgYSBzbGF2ZSBvYmV5cywgQWxsIHdvcmsgYW5kIG5vIHBsYXkgbWFrZXMgU2lyIFdoaXNrZXluZ3RvbiBhIGR1bGwgYm95Lg==
    5:22 PM - Felis catus: base64
    5:23 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: nab
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: dr o could translate that without a decoder
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he is a wizard
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he actually programmed roggen
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: he programmed the world
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: how it behaves
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: dr o is god
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: lol
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: you forgot the first commandment
    5:25 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: 1. Thou shalt have no gods; thou shalt only have Budnab.
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o made him
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o defined the gods
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o did everything
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: he is the god

  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited May 2012

    But to imply that PVK in its current state requires no skill is absolutely ludicrous.



    He-man is just tired of being bottom of the server every map change. He hasn't figured out how to charge attacks yet, and is tired of dying to new players that just hold mouse 2.

    This isn't slander, just a statement of my experience on the matter.
  • He-ManHe-Man Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    Okay, maybe I should have been a little more specific when I said this game is now "easy." What I mean is, it's less skill-base, and therefore it levels out the playing field. It doesn't matter if you were or good player or a bad player, instead now everyone is just a mediocre player. To make a comparison, it's like tic-tac-toe. Any two players with half a brain will find it's a cats game everytime, because there is no skill involved. That's all I'm saying. But whatever, haters gonna hate.
  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    I think you'll find a lot of players are still a lot better than mediocre
  • Dr. ODr. O Minister of Roggen Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    That`s true, many people are still really good. Anyway, I have thought about it and I might be wrong. So I will give it a try and enforce manual block on my server and see how people do. Then there won`t be that manual-auto parry mixture.
    Was it sv_autoparry 0 ? Or what was the command for it?
    PVKII Server: The House of Dr. O
    --friendly fire
    --manual block

    My maps/plugins:
    te_sahara_b1 : http://pvkii.gameban...com/maps/184372
    Weddings: http://forums.allied...ad.php?t=221933



    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: well you're the minister of roggen
    15:55 - Sir Whiskeyngton: you'd just be doing your job
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: I need to send an army of monks to the enemy
    15:56 - Sir Whiskeyngton: since I'm the minister of propaganda



    5:22 PM - Felis catus: QSBtYW4gY2hvb3NlcywgYSBzbGF2ZSBvYmV5cywgQWxsIHdvcmsgYW5kIG5vIHBsYXkgbWFrZXMgU2lyIFdoaXNrZXluZ3RvbiBhIGR1bGwgYm95Lg==
    5:22 PM - Felis catus: base64
    5:23 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: nab
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: dr o could translate that without a decoder
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he is a wizard
    5:23 PM - Felis catus: he actually programmed roggen
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: he programmed the world
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: how it behaves
    5:24 PM - Felis catus: dr o is god
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: lol
    5:24 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: you forgot the first commandment
    5:25 PM - Sir Whiskeyngton: 1. Thou shalt have no gods; thou shalt only have Budnab.
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o made him
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o defined the gods
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: dr o did everything
    5:25 PM - Felis catus: he is the god

  • DMXDMX Senior
    edited May 2012
    Dr. O wrote:

    And thanks for insulting me, now I know that you are the retard ;)


    4lofba.jpg
    joker_by_tortillaturtle-d50i9ir.png
  • Cool ManCool Man Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    I’ll be damned, but I see the old perfect block system preferable to this current one (any beta between 2.0-2.2 would be good, I’d even go back to 1.1 days, if it was an option). I didn’t care much for those either, so let that emphasize how much I like this current system we have.

    Unless something totally new is being hatched, I’d suggest going backwards could be the right call. Making arguments in the forums is pretty much waste of time, so to get the message across, voting with your legs is probably the best and fairest call for everybody. I at least intend to do so.
  • PeepeewilsonPeepeewilson PVKII Team
    edited 1:42AM
    Will anyone notice?
  • Cool ManCool Man Senior
    edited May 2012
    oo, that hurts : ( I was under the impression you would at least make an official announcement or something classy like that.

    Well you did notice certainly by that acknowledgement, but as for the general population; probably not (haha, why would they?). I don't mind. It's not like anybody has noticed that Pvk2 doesn't have about any of those who'd be here from 2.0, even less from 1.1, and about none since the times of the release. Somehow this mod has problem keeping people invested for long.

    However that isn’t really what I was after with my posting. It is not about making an impact on the development of the mod with any sort of protesting (it goes on its own pace and direction anyway, regardless of what’s being said or done here or in-game. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing for anybody), but saving some trouble for a good people of this forum.

    So it was meant rather as an advice for people out there annoyed with the mod, not as my personal statement. It's just better than wasting time and effort on forum postings that won’t lead anywhere.
  • PeepeewilsonPeepeewilson PVKII Team
    edited May 2012
    I agree.

    I doubt our player retention issues are due to the combat system. It's probably the frequency of updates. Hell, we ruined the game and still can't get rid of all the 2.2 fans! ;)

    All kidding aside, the problem with these suggestions is they never present an adequate argument to make the proposed overhaul. It's always "I was having fun before when I was unstoppable, now I die sometimes. Therefore, this game requires no skill. Change it back or I'm gonna leave."

    We need a combat system that is:
    1. New user friendly
    2. Difficult to master
    3. Competitive
    4. Fun (for as many people as it possibly can be)

    In 2.2 the combat system satisfied requirements #2 and #3 for sure. #4 was applicable for a very small number of players (myself included, I loved it). We're certainly not saying the current system is perfect, but it's an indisputable step in the right direction. So if you have ideas to raise the skill ceiling without also raising the learning curve, we're dying to hear them.

    We're not simply going back to 2.2. Plain and simple.
  • Cool ManCool Man Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    Fair enough. It is just my belief that these major gameplay changes are beyond suggestions from the player community, thus writing them is pretty much waste of everyone’s time. No matter how well written they might be or solidity of those arguments. Obviously these might influence opinions of those devs’ who are making the important decisions in the end, but in my experience that is pretty stretch.

    This is based on how many times this has actually happened in the past (few if none, smaller suggestions / ideas are other thing). Plus some of my own experiences with the team, which I am not interested to talk in any detail.

    Frankly I believe that this is mostly for better, and heavily outweighs the alternatives. Any kind of an internet democracy would be a disaster in making, if it was ever applied to a project like this. Still I recon there are people who’d still want to make suggestions and just talk about these (doing these for its own sake is totally fine), but I’d hope that nobody wouldn’t have any illusions on their possible effect on the mod’s future.

    What comes to my ideas or opinions (because clearly you were very keen on hearing them!)…. Well I am not really interested of trying to influence the development of the mod anymore. So I’ll require compensation for my time (US Dollars, Euros and diamonds / jewelry are forms of an acceptable payment, we’ll talk more right?).

    Still I am willingly to say that this current system we have now is the absolute bottom and low point in my own history of pvk1 and pvk2. This is where it become from little annoying to unplayable. Be free to use this tidbit or not but that’s how it is with me, and by the looks I might not be the only one with similar thoughts.
  • PeepeewilsonPeepeewilson PVKII Team
    edited May 2012
    Cool Man wrote:

    What comes to my ideas or opinions (because clearly you were very keen on hearing them!)…. Well I am not really interested of trying to influence the development of the mod anymore. So I’ll require compensation for my time (US Dollars, Euros and diamonds / jewelry are forms of an acceptable payment, we’ll talk more right?).


    I'll always be keen on hearing your ideas. I read almost everything posted on these forums entirely. Do you accept ring pops?

    ring-pop.jpg

    Delicious!
  • TschoppoTschoppo the choppin´ Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    lovely feets you got there peepee, i prefer red for pink, thought

    slugsig.jpg

  • MaydayMayday Engineering Supreme Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    can u just take blocking out the game? i dont c a point of it
  • KOKORONOKAWARIKOKORONOKAWARI Funny Little Japanese Drawing Person Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    PVK1 days or bust (but nerf gestir if you do that =p)

    Nichi2EditCROP_zpscolnflbv.gifKarenPirate1Crop_zps5ccbfa57.gifNichi1CROP_zpspr3i3epd.gif
    http://steamcommunit...m/groups/aclans Join and be pro today!


    10402520_1443600839260675_3566335342614205908_nRESIZE_zpsf8423ece.jpg
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    "I like axes"
    --kokoronokawari
    loli loli loli loli loli loli loli loli

  • HeiHei and truly did she know the name of the Kong Senior
    edited 1:42AM
    Mayday wrote:

    can u just take blocking out the game? i dont c a point of it


    and jumping too nobody likes that
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